Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

Discussions on other historical eras.
Post Reply
User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#1

Post by Hama » 03 Aug 2016, 19:30

I was recently reading about Tornator, a Finnish merchant vessel that was requisitioned while visiting Japan during WW2, and it got me wondering what other Baltic states had shipping links with Japan before the war?

For example I know Poland and Japan had a good political relationship and secret agents of both countries cooperated during the war, but did this friendship extend to maritime commerce with Japan before the war? What about Estonia or Latvia? I know they all had active merchant navies during the period, did any of them have shipping companies that operated routes to Japan during the inter-war years?

Seppo Koivisto
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: 20 Nov 2006, 23:49
Location: Finland

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#2

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 04 Aug 2016, 14:31

There was some trade between Japan and Finland. A treaty of commerce and navigation was signed in 1924. Finland exported mainly wood pulp for the paper industry and rayon pulp for the textile industry. Main import product from Japan was cotton fabric. The trade peaked in 1937, when Finland exported about 27 000 tons of pulp, about 2,6% of all pulp exports. That year Japan's share of cotton fabric imports was 22%. I think that must be few ship loads.
https://books.google.fi/books?id=Qj5WBQ ... rade&hl=fi page 158-, 167


User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#3

Post by Hama » 04 Aug 2016, 19:21

Interesting, thanks for the info and the book link.
According to this website, Tornator was carrying "Swedish steel and Finnish paper" when it set out for Japan in 1941, and was planning to carry back a cargo of "tobacco and fiber" from Yokohama (http://www.combinedfleet.com/Tornator_t.htm).

Tornator herself was acquired from an outside firm. Did Finland at the time have much of a domestic shipbuilding industry, or were most vessels purchased from abroad?

Seppo Koivisto
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: 20 Nov 2006, 23:49
Location: Finland

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#4

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 05 Aug 2016, 08:59

Finnish yards built only smaller ships, the most important shipbuilder was Crichton-Vulcan in Turku.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crichton-Vulcan

Three links of Selandia/Tornator with photos.
http://www.aanimeri.fi/gallery2/main.ph ... emId=18305
http://selandia100.dk/
http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/discover ... ping-.html

User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#5

Post by Hama » 05 Aug 2016, 12:14

Thanks a lot. Those are some great photos and drawings.

It's interesting what it says on the wikipedia article you linked about Crichton-Vulcan and the German Uboat prototypes. Was it common at the time in Finland for German-run companies like Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw to have ties with Finnish industry? And did Crichton-Vulcan itself have German shareholders or managers that might have helped encourage cooperation between the two on shipbuilding projects? The article says that not only the design but also the supervision of the construction was carried out by Germans, so that made me wonder how much of a German presence was there in Finnish industry at the time?

Seppo Koivisto
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: 20 Nov 2006, 23:49
Location: Finland

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#6

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 05 Aug 2016, 22:51

As far as I know there was no German ownership in Crichton-Vulcan, it is not connected with the German shipyard AG Vulcan.

The Finnish Navy ordered plans for the Finnish submarines from IvS. I think its only logical that German experts supervised the project, as Finns had no experience with submarines. Later IvS ordered one more prototype from C-V, which the Finnish Navy bought after German testing.

User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#7

Post by Hama » 06 Aug 2016, 01:15

Ah I see. I only asked because I wondered what the shipbuilders were initially told when they were given the designs for the Uboat prototypes, for example if they knew the subs were for German testing and if so was there any German influence within the company to promote some kind of deal (given that Germany was technically prohibited from using the subs by the Versailles Treaty). With all the German designers and supervisors hanging around, wouldn't the guys at the Finnish shipbuilders have been a bit suspicious about who the subs were initially going to be used by, and whether they might be implicated in helping Germany circumvent the Versailles Treaty?

Seppo Koivisto
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: 20 Nov 2006, 23:49
Location: Finland

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#8

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 06 Aug 2016, 09:23

The first three submarines the Finnish Navy ordered from C-V were based on an old German WW1 design. I think the Allies knew well of this project, as offers were asked also from British, Dutch, French, Danish and Swedish shipyards. IvS was the design partner chosen by C-V in this bidding. These submarines were first tested by crews hired from Germany, because Finnish seamen had no submarine training. IvS also designed submarines built for the Swedish Navy in Sweden.

The prototype of Type II submarines IvS themselves ordered in 1930, after the first three were almost completed. The Finnish Navy bought it in 1936.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_submarine_Vesikko

User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#9

Post by Hama » 06 Aug 2016, 13:23

Oh I see. So the subs all ended up with the Finnish Navy after testing. I thought some of them ended up with German Navy, which I thought would have not looked great for C-V if they were supplying Germans with submarines against the Versailles Treaty. Sorry about that confusion, and thanks for the explanation.

On another note, did the Finnish military ever make an official visit to Japan, or were any military officers ever sent to Japan for study like some of the German officers were?

Seppo Koivisto
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: 20 Nov 2006, 23:49
Location: Finland

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#10

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 07 Aug 2016, 23:58

I cannot recall any visits of Finnish military before November 1940, when colonel Auno Kaila and captain Lauri Laine arrived to train Japanese in winter warfare. There was also major Hjalmar Front, a Finn serving in the Red Army, but escaped Stalin's purges to Japanese side. Japan sent an Army representative, majorTerada Seiichi to Helsinki already in April 1934, when the embassy was still in Stockholm.

There was another Finnish ship, SS Tilda, that got trapped in Japan due to the war. The shipping service between Finland and Japan seem not to be very frequent, at least in 1933 there was none.
http://www.aanimeri.fi/gallery2/main.ph ... emId=33042

User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#11

Post by Hama » 09 Aug 2016, 19:49

Interesting, I hadn't heard of that ship. Thanks for the information!


User avatar
Hama
Member
Posts: 278
Joined: 21 Jul 2016, 22:48
Location: the coast

Re: Maritime links between Baltic states and Japan?

#13

Post by Hama » 18 Aug 2016, 16:32

Thanks Juha. A few of the links in that thread are actually the same ones I found my info on. :)

Post Reply

Return to “Other eras”