Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations, as well as the First and Second World Wars in general hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day.

Skip to content

estonia's army

Discussions on the events that took place between the World Wars, not covered in the other sections.

Postby Reigo on 11 Aug 2003 13:56

do any of the coastal artillery fortresses still exist today, or did the russians wreck them when the soviet union collapsed?


Only ruins today. I believe the fortress was mostly destroyed during the Soviet retreat in 1941.

were the nobility in the baltics all germans? were there any estonian or latvian noble families?


They were mostly Germans. There were also Swedish, Danish, Russian noble families who lived here. At the beginning of 20th century there were no Latvian or Estonian noble families. It is believed that some of the noble families had Latvian or Estonian roots, but these families were Germanized centuries ago.

Bookmark and Share

Reigo
Member
Estonia
 
Posts: 632
Joined: 04 Jun 2002 10:20
Location: Estonia

Postby Balrog on 11 Aug 2003 17:57

thank you for all the information. the local university library only carries 4 books on the baltics, all of them dealing with the 1991 independence. this thread has provided me with much needed information.

Bookmark and Share

User avatar
Balrog
Member
United States
 
Posts: 723
Joined: 17 Feb 2003 15:09
Location: USA, North Carolina/Manchukuo/Dominican Republic

Postby Hanski on 27 May 2004 18:27

Balrog wrote:do any of the coastal artillery fortresses still exist today, or did the russians wreck them when the soviet union collapsed?


On the Finnish coast, there is still the Kuivasaari fortress with its museum 12" (305 mm) guns restored for ceremonial use, such as firing the salutes for the 85th anniversary of Finland's independence on 6 Dec 2002.

http://hyl.edu.hel.fi/sivut/Jarmo/suome ... tml#tokams

See also http://www.rt-kilta.net/galleria_kuivasaari.html

Hanski

Bookmark and Share

User avatar
Hanski
Financial supporter
Finland
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: 24 Aug 2002 19:18
Location: Helsinki

Postby ernesto che burasca on 12 Jun 2004 15:29

Balrog:
i believe the country mussolini helped was latvia, i know he recieved the "order of the latvian bear slayer" decoration, he was one of less than a dozen people to ever receive this award.


Mussolini has the Estonian Cross of freedom as well III/1. Not for the military help but because of Italian diplomatic support to Estonia to join the League of Nations.

Docent P:
After their unsuccessful raid on Petrograd their returned to Estonia where the grateful Estonians put them into prison camps with conditions not rather better than in the later Stalin's GULAG.

Reigo:
There were no prison camps, but quarantine zones since the NW Army had massive typhus epidemy. Otherwise the epidemy would have spreaded all over the land. That the full army didn't eventually die in typhus is the result that the Estonian Army's medical service finally took the treatment over (most of the NW Armys medical corps died or were sick).



One point the Russian historians have seen as GULAGish is been the obligation to those not sick to work in the wood. The point here is that this was not something exclusively for Northwestern Army but because of the afterwar catastrophic situation with heating materials there was temporarily introduced such an obligation to the capable residents not involved in other more important activities. The Russian soldiers were not an exeption.


Balrog:
was the arrrested estonia president kept under house arrest in russia or was he left to die in a gulag?

Reigo:
He was kept under house arrest.


To be exact, not quite "house arrest". He's been taken to Russia and later kept in a house for mentally disabled. Of course better than prison, he survived longer than other leaders, but still ...


Balrog:
reading over the web links, it seems the soviets murdered almost the entire estonian government, officer corps, and viirtually anyone of any importance at all.

Well many survived, but true - many were murdered. The Soviet s didn't murder the entire officer corps - only the "bad" element there. Almost the entire general corps was murdered.



"Bad" element in the Soviet sense means potentially anyone who is been remarkably active in any other army than the Soviet one (as well as other party than Communist etc.). The principle was to destruct any potential alternative leadership. Only sometimes active collaboration with the Soviets could former civilian, NGO or military leaders avoid to be repressed. By the outrooking of the "not our" elements the Soviets started from the head, so higher staff first. That reason the share "bad" element discovered in the 1940/41 was so high by the higher officers while much less in lower ranks.



Balrog:
what became of the german land holders after the end of the war in the early 1920's?

Reigo:
Their land was mostly taken away with the landreform. So they had to conform with the new circumstances...


Could be a necessary addition, that a compensation was paid.

Bookmark and Share

ernesto che burasca
Member
Estonia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 04:17
Location: Estonia

Postby Reigo on 13 Jun 2004 17:39

One point the Russian historians have seen as GULAGish is been the obligation to those not sick to work in the wood. The point here is that this was not something exclusively for Northwestern Army but because of the afterwar catastrophic situation with heating materials there was temporarily introduced such an obligation to the capable residents not involved in other more important activities. The Russian soldiers were not an exeption.


The topic is interesting, but badly researched. The truth seems to be that the pay was extremely low and the conditions of the workers weren't good. But where I can find proof that only the Russians weren't put to work?


Could be a necessary addition, that a compensation was paid.


IIRC the compensation for the land taken away from the Germans was at first very small. Later because of Germany's pressure it was increased, but still it wasn't too big.

Bookmark and Share

Reigo
Member
Estonia
 
Posts: 632
Joined: 04 Jun 2002 10:20
Location: Estonia

Postby ernesto che burasca on 06 Jul 2004 13:32

1. Ant, Jüri "Eesti 1920. Iseseisvuse esimene rahuaasta." Tallinn, "Olion" 1990.

2. Amounts are always disputable, by any kind of forced nationalisations. It's still a different case than simply confiscation.

Bookmark and Share

ernesto che burasca
Member
Estonia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 04:17
Location: Estonia

Postby David Lehmann on 04 Sep 2005 06:33

Hello,

I just found this photo on the Internet http://www.rrg.edu.ee/~rainvaikla/ewarmee.html :
Image

Apparently it is from the Estonian army in 1936 ... never seen a Hotchkiss with such a sight before.

On the same page there are photos of Estonian FT17 tanks and apparently they used also Citroen-Kégresse halftracks (like France, Poland, Danemark etc.)

Image

Image

Regards,

David

Bookmark and Share

User avatar
David Lehmann
Member
France
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 10:50
Location: France

Re: estonia's army

Postby Ñancul on 06 Mar 2008 22:24

I am from Argentina, I find it very interesting these forums on the Baltic States between 1918 and 1940.
I am writing a book about these armed forces, and would be very useful assistance that I could provide.

Bookmark and Share

Ñancul
Member
Argentina
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 22:08

Re:

Postby crolick on 20 Aug 2008 16:58

Juha Tompuri wrote:Interesting discussion!
Estonia and Finland had a secret defence alliance. At naval and coastal artillery defence the co-operation was deepest. The countries had a combined coastal artillery fire control system (the Finns could control Estonian artillery fire and visa versa). The Estonian subs were equipped with the same torpedo and mine "systems" as the Finnish ones. "Veljien Valtiosalaisuus" (State secret of Brothers) by Jari Leskinen even states that if hostilities between Finland and Estonia versus Soviet Union would broke out, Lembit and Kalev would be placed under Finnish high command.
Dear Juha,

could you please tell us a little bit more about this cooperation?! It seems very interesting.

BTW. Is it possible to post larger version of the attached image - I really can not distinguish any details there :wink:

Bookmark and Share

User avatar
crolick
Member
Poland
 
Posts: 224
Joined: 25 Oct 2005 20:18
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: estonia's army

Postby Tony Fermor on 21 Aug 2008 13:16

Hi

The only ones I have are these, they were taken near to Taevaskoja in southern Estonia in the 20's or 30's.

Image

Image

Image

Tony

Bookmark and Share

Tony Fermor
Member
Greece
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 07 Jun 2008 14:35

Re: estonia's army

Postby Ñancul on 28 Oct 2009 17:31

More information please

Bookmark and Share

Ñancul
Member
Argentina
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 22:08

Previous

Return to Inter-War Era

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests