The destruction of Dutch and Belgian armies 1940

[ljadw]

For holland :the losses of the Army were :2067 KIA and 2860 MIA

[ljadw]

From WWII Stats:Monthly POW Figures in the OKW Zone
on 1 may 1941:
French:officers :35150,others:1246093
English:officers :2097 ,others: 40.929
Belgian:officers :19.325,others:79.159
Poles:officers:17.885,others:82.643
Dutch:officers :67,others :8
Almost all Dutch POW were liberated.
For the French,Belgian and Poles:most of the soldiers were liberated,the officers remained POW.
on 1 may 1942:
French:22.563/1069473
English:3458/64768
Belgians:428O /70.665 ( for whatever reason,most of the officers were liberated)
Poles:17692/41747 (half of the men were liberated)
Dutch:66/3
After the strikes of february 1943,the Germans ordered that the liberated Dutch POW should return into captivity,but,of course,this happened only sporadically

[thom]

I have my doubts on the figure of 285002 Belgians,because Belgium mobilized some 600000 men,of course ,a lot escaped or were liberated before thei were transferred to Germany,and were not mentioned in the documents .
About the British:an official British document (from the National Archives,but ,not dated,)is giving as MIA for may and june 1940:
officers :1830
others:46329

600000 was probably the number called up in the mobilization but many did not show up. Others simply left home before being captured. The figure of 285000 was reported by the armies immediately after capture, ie before any transfer to Germany.

Btw, is there also data on the KIA and WIA in the British document you mentioned? Could you please give the NARA reference?

[ljadw]

The British document is coming from the British Archives(sorry to give wrong information),reference is :
learning curve.gov.uk/worldwar 2/theatres -of-war/western-europe/investigat
It also mention :catalogue ref:WO 222/1532
Sadly enough,I could not find it back .
The data are:
officers :killed 333
:wounded:809
:missing:1830
other ranks:killed:3873
:wounded:16006
:missing:46329

[thom]

Thanks ljadw.

[Kelvin]

Hi, Thom, I see David Irving book : Hitler's war mentions German took 350,000 Belgian soldiers, of which 200,000 Flemish were released and 150,000 Walloon were kept in German hand. So Captured Belgian soldiers was more that original 285,000. Did additional 70,000 Belgian soldiers were captured after surrender on May 28 1940 ? Thank

[ljadw]

The figures from Irving are wrong : the whole thing is an old myth that appeared after the war ,and old myths never die . It is not true that the Walloons were kept in Germany and the Flemish were released
Belgium mobilised 600000 men, not all became POW .


The German monthly POW figures for the OKW zone are the following (they are mentionned in WW2 stats.)

1.5.41 :98446

1.1.42 :76903

1.1.43 :66653

1.1.44 : 66333

That means that one year after the Belgian capitulation 80 % of the Belgian POW's had been released .

[ljadw]

More information :

1 ) Before the capitulation of 28 may, 50000 Belgian soldiers had already become POW's

2 ) Of the remaining 550000,350000 were in Belgium and became POW;150000 went to Germany; the other 200000 were released or released themselves .
200000 were in France (recruits and non fighting elements),they returned to Belgium in the summer and were mostly demobilised,25000 went to Germany .

3 )225000 went to Germany (150000 + 50000 + 25000),of whom after 1 year 125000 were demobilised ,after 2 years a third remained in Germany .

4 ) Even if the 77000 who remained in Germany 2 years after the capitulation were all Walloons, it would mean that 66 % of the Walloons were released ,which debunks the claim that the Walloons remained POW for 5 years .

[Knouterer]

Two of my uncles were serving in the Dutch army in May 1940, in the same unit. On the day the Dutch armed forces capitulated, they were herded into a field with hundreds of others. There was no fence and there were only a few German guards, so after darkness fell they just slipped away, obtained some civilian clothing somewhere, and went home. Apparently, their names were not taken and their military identity cards or paybooks were not collected, so I would assume they were not numbered among the Dutch POWs in German reports. There must have been many similar cases.

As I understand it, neither the Germans nor the Dutch authorities ever bothered my uncles about their "daring escape".

This is just an anecdote of course, and I can't vouch for the exact details, but it does suggest that the Germans were fairly relaxed about keeping Dutch soldiers in captivity.

[Kelvin]

Hi, Ljadw, thank for your answer.

BTW, do you know at this moment, Swiss Army was larger than those of Belgian or contrary ?

[Knouterer]

My abovementioned two uncles are in this group, photographed during the mobilisation period 1939/40:

[Loïc]

what is the unit there and the place, seem barracks in the background


for the Swiss Army in the previous post, one third inferior to the Belgian some 400 to 500 000 Helvetian in september 1939 vs 600/650 000
the Swiss Army was reduced to 281 000 soldiers in the autumn then 174 000 men early 1940 before a massive remobilisation again in may 1940 with ~450 000 men

[Kelvin]

Hello, Loic, thank for your help.

[Knouterer]

what is the unit there and the place, seem barracks in the background

Sorry, no idea, my uncles passed away years ago so I can't ask them. Another picture from the family archive, perhaps men from the same unit, but I really don't know. It's possible that the first pic shows the MG section and the second the remainder of the same infantry platoon.

[Carl Schwamberger]

...
And regarding the treatment of Polish POWs of Jewish nationality in German POW camps:

It is also possible that the +/- 25,000 Polish POWs of Jewish nationality who are supposed to be murdered in German Stalags (according to the source that I sent you via PM), had not been "registered" before being killed.

Whether they weren't "registered" deliberately (i.e. murdering them was part of Holocaust) or not, is to be established. Whether the number of 25,000 is accurate or not is to be established as well.

But this number is mentioned by many of "Jewish sources".

I recall the testimony of a Polish Jew who fought in the 1939 campaign. He stated he & the other Jews were swiftly released as PoW & recorded as Jews and either transported to the newly forming Ghettos or to newly forming Jewish camps. It may be a portion of the Jewish soldiers were never recorded as PoW, but rather as Jews to avoid the need to treat them according to the agreements for PoW.