Mori wrote:Sheldrake wrote: Many of the German artillery pieces were captured Italian or soviet pieces for which there was little ammunition available.
This assumption should be quantified, and I'm not sure whether anyone has ever made the proper count: was the % of guns were from old French/Russian/Italian stocks significant, ie >20%? Was ammunition supply for these guns really worse than for German guns? (Some ammunitions types were identical or similar enough to German guns; some industrial facilities could still manufacture shells in captured France etc.).
I have often read that guns captured from French and Russian armies were a liability because of lack of ammunition or spare parts. This is repeated in German memoirs over and over, from Normandy to the Elbe. What's strange is you read this in Normandy accounts, in Siegfried Line accounts (autumn 44), in Rhineland accounts (up to March 1945), like there was a continuous supply of new captured guns, or like Germans gave priority to these guns when retreating to the East...
It sounds a bit like the Siegfried Line. German memoirs usually describe their fortifications as utterly useless, "only good to protect against the weather". One typical illustration are the obsolete AT guns, with bunker openings too small to accomodate larger, modern guns. One scholar studied the point, and realized that expanding the opening did not require to destroy the building; that 7-10 days of work were enough to upgrade bunkers; but that, from September 1944 to January 1945, Germans failed to make the effort in 75% of the bunkers. Most probably because field commanders at army and army group level did not believe in the Siegfried Line to start with - and made their belief self-fulfilling.
The quote is repeated because it is true. I quantified this in a previous post. The Germans on a best effort fired 2,500 rounds on one day on what they thought was the main battlefield. The British and Canadian 21st Army Group replied with 22,500 rounds as an immediate response and were firing 100,000 artillery rounds a day for the middle ten days of July 1944. The British so outmatched the German guns that the main counter bombardment effort effort switched to locating and countering counter mortars.
Academics have also demonstrated that the Germans suffered from shortages of ammunition and fuel.
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse. ... &user=&pw=
The problem with equipping your army with captured equipment is that you complicate your logistics. 7th Army had a nonsensical range of artillery firing incompatible ammunition. German 75mm, 88mm, three sorts of 105mm 150mm 170mm French 75mm, two sorts of 155mm, Italian 149mm Russian 76mm, 122mm guns and howitzers and 152mm. The divisional artillery of the 716 , Thirteen ammunition types. These good on paper with the propaganda Atlantic Wall, but without adequate artillery ammunition stocks in the right place and transport to move it it is just so much scrap metal bluff. The more types of ammunition you need, the harder it is to have the right ammunition in the right place! Of course the Germans suffered shortages of ammunition.
This is a summry of the German artillery by division
3 para Div - Mix of German 105mm howitzes and recoiless rifles in one 12 gun Bn
5 Para German light FH 105mm
16 Lw - Russian 76,2mm & 122mm
77 ID mx of 88mm pak 43/41 & 105mm
84 ID mx 88mm flak 18 & flak 36 LH 105mm & SH 150mm
85 ID mx 88mm flak 18 & flak 36 LH 105mm & SH 150mm
89 ID ??
91 Luft Lande 10.5mm mountain howitzers - incompatable with other 105mm rounds
243 ID Russian 76.2mm &122mm guns and 122mm howitzers
265 ID Russian 76.2 mm and 122mm guns and 122mm howitzers
266 ID Russian 76.2mm guns & 122mm Howitzers and French 155mm howitzers
271 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
272 ID German 105mm and 150mm howitzers
275 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
276 ID??
277ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
326 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and russian 122mm guns and howitzers
331 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and French 155mm howitzers
343 ID Russian 76.2mm guns French 100mm and 155mm howitzers
346 ID Russian 76.2mm guns & 122mm Howitzers and French 155mm howitzers
352 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
353 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
363 ID German 75mm IG 150mm IG 105mm and 150mm howitzers
708 ID Russian 76.2mm guns and 122mm howitzers and French 105 mm howitzers
709 ID Russian 76.2mm guns, Czech 100mm Howitzers French 105mm guns and 155 mm howitzers
711 ID Russian 76.2mm guns, and French 155 mm howitzers
716 ID Czech 100mm Howitzers and French 155 mm howitzers
The army artillery was
Art bde 704 German 21 cnm morser, 17cm K 18 gun sturm Pz IV
SS Art abt 101German 21 cm morser 18 & 17 cm K18
Art abt 456 German 88mm & russian 122 & 152
Art abt 456 Russian 122 guns & 152mm gun how
Art abt 460 Russian 122 guns and 152mm gun how
Art abt 555 Russian 122 how
Art bty 625 German 17cm guns
Art Abt 628 German 21 cmm Morser
Art Abt 763 German 17cm guns
Art abt 989 Russian 122 how
Art abt 992 Russian 152 gun how
Art abt 1151 Russian 122 how
Art abt 1151 Italian 14.9cm how
Art abt 1193 Italian 14.9cm how
Art abt 1194 Italian 14.9cm how
Art abt 1198 Italian 14.9cm how
And there is the coastal artillery...
The Panzer Divisions were mainly equipped with German artillery - apart from 21 Pz Div which had a mixture of German and Russian guns
Most of these formations drew on 7th Army for their logistics until the end of July. The four army battalions supplied with Italian artillery were raised in the South of France and may have relied on Italian munisions factories in Northern Italy. I could not find the exact location of the ammunition deport in France, but from memory it is somewhere East of Paris where it could supply 7th and 15th Army. There was only one twin track railway into Normandy, and that under attack from allied aircraft. There was an acute shortage of B Vehicles, and many of these were a hodge-podge of French and Italian vehicles. Infantry divisions were mainly reliant on horse transport. Keeping these troops supplied with the right ammunition was a dogs breakfast of a job for the logistic staff of 7th Army.
The US had 75mm, 90mm 105mm, 155mm and 203mm. The British used US 75mm, 105mm and 155mm and their own 25Pounder, 3.7" 4.5" 5.5" and 7.2" Each national army, with a larger artillery park that that of 7th Army had between five and seven artillery equipment types - and the British got rid of the 75mm airborne and 105mm SP guns by the end of August.
The thing about artillery is that the weapon is the shell and not the equipment that fires it. It is an industrial process that starts with the factory and ends with rounds on the ground.