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30th ID at Mortain "Old Hickory"

Discussions on WW2 in Western Europe & the Atlantic.

30th ID at Mortain "Old Hickory"

Postby Caldric on 09 Jun 2004 22:19

Battle of Mortain

30th Infantry Division “Old Hickory” stops the breakout of the German forces at the village of Mortain. One of the many US divisions in the ETO, however the 30th stands out as one of the best US divisions in the field. It was the hard fighting of the 30th ID that disrupted Hitler's plans to divide the US Army in Normandy. Stopping overwhelming forces of the German Army and SS.

During combat, the Division became know as the Workhorse of the Western Front. It was also known as "Roosevelt's SS Troops," so named by German high command because of the consistent vigor and pressure the Division brought to bear on Hitler's elite 1st SS Division. The 1st SS was the main force of resistance just before the breakthrough at St. Lo, and again at Mortain, which the 30th literally tore to shreds, thus allowing Gen. George Patton's armored forces to race forward through France, thereby shortening the war by many months.

http://www.30thinfantry.org/history.shtml

August 7th 1944 the Germans kicked off the operation known as Lüttich. Participating was the German 1st SS Panzer Div, 116th Panzer Div, 2nd SS Panzer, 17th Panzergrenadier Division at Mortain.

This small French village became the focus of a German counterattack on the evening of August 6, 1944. Operation Lüttich, as it was called, was ordered by Hitler with the intention of splitting the American forces between Hodges' First Army and Patton's newly formed Third Army. The Germans needed control of the vital road network around Mortain to allow a drive to Avranches on the coast. the Germans would later state that their failure to complete the separation of the American forces was a "turning point" in the battle of the western front. This failure was caused by the determined resistance of Old Hickory at Mortain.

Hitler personally ordered this attack contrary to the advice of his generals. It was opposed to such a degree that the commander of the116th Panzer Division refused to follow the order, delaying the attack. Nonetheless, at approximately 0100 hours 7 August the lead elements of the 2nd SS Panzer Division made contact with members of the 9th U.S. Infantry Division. In addition to the 2nd SS "Panzer Lehr" division, the 1st SS Panzer "Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler", 116th Panzer, and17th SS Panzergrenadier divisions also participated.

The disposition of Old Hickory's troops around Mortain was as follows. On the eastern side of the town stood a tall hill, elevation 314. Hill 314 had been recognized by the Americans as a vital defensive position early on and was held by the 2nd battalion, 120th Infantry. The 1st of the 120th was on the west of Mortain holding hill 285. Two platoons of the 120th's company F, a platoon of the 120th's antitank company, along with 3rd platoon of Company A, 823rd Tank Destroyer Battalion had established what would prove to be a crucial roadblock at L'Abbaye Blanche where they could cover the road junctions north of Mortain. Meanwhile, the 117th Infantry was in place at St. Barthelmy, approximately two miles north of Mortain. The 119th Infantry was to the northwest near Le Mesnil-Adelée.

The Germans made significant gains in the early hours of the attack, actually capturing the village of Mortain. However the Nazis failed to gain control of the crucial high ground around Mortain. Such was the disposition in the initial stages of the attack.

Although they held Mortain, they had not gained control of the roads they so desperately needed. The directed artillery fire from Hill 314 prevented this. The 120th held the hill and despite being completely cut off from resupply and relief these infantrymen withstood the repeated assaults of combined German artillery, armor and infantry assaults.


http://home.nc.rr.com/oldhickory/page6.htm

The following is very interesting document by the one of the US commanders that held hill 314.

Operations of the 2nd Battalion, 120th Infantry
(30th Infantry Division) at Mortain, France
6 – 12 August 1944
(Northern France Campaign)

(Personal Experiences of a Company Commander)

An Isolated Infantry Battalion
Defending a Key Terrain Feature
http://www.30thinfantry.org/Mortain-Operations.doc


Interesting sources:

http://www.dasreich.ca/mortain.html

This is a nice link interactive of the 30th ID in Europe.
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60Ang ... inf_us.php

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Postby Timo on 11 Jun 2004 14:38

Old Hickory is one of a small group of Divisions which met the LSSAH on two occassions and defeated them twice: Mortain and Stavelot.

From that website...
The First SS faced the 30th Infantry Division again during the Battle of the Bulge, during the Ardennes Offensive in the winter of 1944-45. Again the Division defeated this elite enemy unit, which was never again to do battle.

...which is nonsense of course. After battling the 30th US Inf. Div., the Leibstandarte saw action in the Bastogene area, Hungary and Austria.

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Postby Lipton on 11 Jun 2004 14:52

Stavelot is the place where Jochen Peiper fell into captivity. Was he captured by 30. or 7. Inf. Div.?

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Postby Timo on 11 Jun 2004 14:58

Lipton wrote:Stavelot is the place where Jochen Peiper fell into captivity. Was he captured by 30. or 7. Inf. Div.?


Jochen Peiper fell into captivity in Stavelot??????????????????? Why told you that?

a) Jochen Peiper wasn't captured until after the war had ended and the Leibstandarte capitulated. By that time it was May/June 1945
b) Peiper was only in Stavelot for a short time on Dec 18, but that was well before the Old Hickory showed up later that day
c) What's the 7. US Inf. Div. have to do with Stavelot?

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Postby Lipton on 11 Jun 2004 15:20

Timo Worst wrote:
Lipton wrote:Stavelot is the place where Jochen Peiper fell into captivity. Was he captured by 30. or 7. Inf. Div.?


Jochen Peiper fell into captivity in Stavelot?

It´s mentioned in Tim Newark´s Turning the Tide of War. Now I know that it´s a nonsense. Thank you Timo.

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Postby Caldric on 11 Jun 2004 21:08

Timo Worst wrote:Old Hickory is one of a small group of Divisions which met the LSSAH on two occassions and defeated them twice: Mortain and Stavelot.

From that website...
The First SS faced the 30th Infantry Division again during the Battle of the Bulge, during the Ardennes Offensive in the winter of 1944-45. Again the Division defeated this elite enemy unit, which was never again to do battle.

...which is nonsense of course. After battling the 30th US Inf. Div., the Leibstandarte saw action in the Bastogene area, Hungary and Austria.


I did not think that was correct Timo. But it was from the 30th web site so I let it pass.

However no doubt for a National Guard Division the 30th showed a good prowess on the battlefield and was led by good commanders and the ranks were hard fighters.

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Postby Wolfkin on 13 Jun 2004 23:12

Hello!

I have no doubt that the 30th Infantry Division was a great Division. Along with units like the 1st Infantry Division, 4th Armoured Division and 82nd Airborne Division they were there among the excellent fighting formations. However, this article, like many others, is littered with many errors.

Quote: "The 1st SS was the main force of resistance just before the breakthrough at St. Lo, and again at Mortain."

-This is incorrect. The 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte did not fight near St. Lo. The Leibstandarte fought in the Caen area against the British and Canadians before being sent to the Mortain area for the Mortain Offensive.

Quote: "Which the 30th literally tore to shreds."

-There is no doubt that the Leibstandarte suffered casualties but one can hardly say that they were torn to shreds at Mortain. Also, the 30th was not alone at Mortain.

Quote: "2nd SS "Panzer Lehr" Division...1st SS "Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler..."

-It is the 2nd SS "Das Reich" Division and the 1st SS "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" Division. Lieb means something different than Leib. The "Panzer Lehr" is the 130th "Panzer Lehr" Division.

When I see so much incorrect information it makes me question the entire article. The 30th Infantry was an excellent formation and it deserves a much better article than this.

Here is a link to a thread I started about the Mortain Offensive a while ago on Feldgrau:

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9470

Here is another interesting thread right here on AHF:

viewtopic.php?t=47991

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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Postby Qvist on 14 Jun 2004 10:54

As I recall, the 30th achieved the highest average score of all allied units in TDIs Italian campaign database, and also higher than all but three of the German divisions. A fine unit by all accounts.

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Postby Wolfkin on 15 Jun 2004 01:28

Hello!

Yes, they were a great Division but I do indeed find it strange that they would be included in an Italian Campaign Database. As far as I am aware, the 30th Infantry Division did not fight in Italy. Its first combat was Normandy and then it fought only in the NW Europe Theatre of operations.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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Postby Timo on 15 Jun 2004 01:40

No doubt among the best American units of WW2, it certainly earned its nickname "the workhorse of the western front". Especially very good when working together with 3rd Armoured.

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Postby Qvist on 15 Jun 2004 07:00

Hi Wolfkin

Isn't this the division Chris Lawrence refers to in his comments to Brown's "Draftee division", included as an annex to Niklas Zetterling's "Normandy 1944"? Are am I simply confused?

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Postby Michate on 15 Jun 2004 07:56

Isn't this the division Chris Lawrence refers to in his comments to Brown's "Draftee division", included as an annex to Niklas Zetterling's "Normandy 1944"? Are am I simply confused?


Quist, I have not read Zetterling's Normandy book yet (I will do that ASAP), but IIRC from a thread at the Dupuy forum, the term "draftee division" refers to American 88th Infantry division, which had one of the best scores of all (Allied and German) fighting units in the Italian campaign database.

IIRC, Brown's book on this division criticised the Dupuy models not showing its fighting prowess, although they actually do show them.

Edit:

It was the hard fighting of the 30th ID that disrupted Hitler's plans to divide the US Army in Normandy. Stopping overwhelming forces of the German Army and SS.


Not to take away any deserved reputation from the American forces there, but at Mortain, one should not forget the combat elements of the attacking German units were much understrength after continued heavy fighting in Normandy. Thus the German forces were overwhelming more on paper than in reality.

The plan to divide the American forces was not realistic anyway, as at the theater level it was the Allied forces that had a high superiority.

Best regards,
Michael
Last edited by Michate on 15 Jun 2004 08:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Qvist on 15 Jun 2004 08:10

Quist, I have not read Zetterling's Normandy book yet (I will do that ASAP), but IIRC from a thread at the Dupuy forum, the term "draftee division" refers to American 88th Infantry division, which had one of the best scores of all (Allied and German) fighting units in the Italian campaign database.


So, I am simply confused. :D

Sorry everyone.


cheers

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Postby RichTO90 on 15 Jun 2004 14:14

Qvist wrote:
Quist, I have not read Zetterling's Normandy book yet (I will do that ASAP), but IIRC from a thread at the Dupuy forum, the term "draftee division" refers to American 88th Infantry division, which had one of the best scores of all (Allied and German) fighting units in the Italian campaign database.


So, I am simply confused. :D

Sorry everyone.


cheers


Qvist, the division you refer to is the 88th Division, not the 30th. The 88th was an AUS division - a 'draftee division' - while the 30th was a National Guard division.

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Postby Wolfkin on 16 Jun 2004 03:52

Hello!

No need to apologize Qvist, my friend, we all get confused at one time or another! I looked at Appendix 10 of the Normandy book and it is indeed the U.S. 88th Infantry Division. Interestingly, this Colonel Brown's Grandfather served in the 88th Infantry and yet he was putting in question Dupuy's methods. Anyways, I had not really read that part of the book fully I just read all the information on unit history, strength, dates and so on. Interesting stuff!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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