Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

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Bob_Mackenzie
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Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#1

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 09 Oct 2016, 16:38

Hi All

Can anyone confirm the units involved in the fighting around Torda on the 22nd Sept 1944 please. I have spent three hours googling with an online translator and its like the battle never existed from the Soviet side

I think the inits involved were

18th Rifle Div
4th Guards Rifle div
Elements 5th or 9th Guards tank Corps?
Romanian Niculescu Detachement

Thanks

Bob

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#2

Post by Art » 09 Oct 2016, 19:06

From the map published in Minasyan there were 35 Guards Rifle Corps and 104 Rifle Corps in the area around that time. Also elements of 6 Guards Tank Army (at least 5 Guards Tank Corps)
Elements 5th or 9th Guards tank Corps?
9 Guards Tank Corps wasn't there and besides it was still called 3 Tank Corps. Probably that was 9 Guards Mechanized Corps.


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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#3

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 09 Oct 2016, 20:28

Thanks Art

http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=4797

seems to confirm 9 Gds mech

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#4

Post by Art » 10 Oct 2016, 22:44

From the 9 GMC's after-action report it appears that the unit was in action on 22 September 1944 and days the followed in the region 10-12 km north-west of Turda. In particular it said that 233 Tank Brigade had an unpleasant engagement with German and Hungarian troops on the night 22/23 September. A map from the report:
Image
and a link to the document itself:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=114203565
It's mentioned that 3 Guards Airborne Division and 180 Rifle Division were operating in the same area.
5 Guards Tank Corps was having rest and wasn't in action on 22.09.44 or later.

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Yuri
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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#5

Post by Yuri » 11 Oct 2016, 09:42

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Hi All

Can anyone confirm the units involved in the fighting around Torda on the 22nd Sept 1944 please. I have spent three hours googling with an online translator and its like the battle never existed from the Soviet side

I think the inits involved were

18th Rifle Div
4th Guards Rifle div
Elements 5th or 9th Guards tank Corps?
Romanian Niculescu Detachement

Thanks

Bob
By order of the Supreme commander of 5th Mechanized Corps with 14.09.1944 was renamed the 9th Guards MC. This is the mechanized corps, which had first entered combat in December 1942 on the river Chir in area sovkhoz N79 (state farm "Red Star")

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#6

Post by Art » 11 Oct 2016, 11:21

6 GTA's situation map, 24 September 1944:

Image

Full image:
https://s16.postimg.org/y512exspv/00000202.jpg

From the 6 GTA's war diary.

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#7

Post by Art » 18 Oct 2016, 09:37

Also a report on operation of Soviet armored forces at Turda, Arad and Brasov in September 1944:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=113723640
From the document 6 Guards Tank Army lost 695 men killed, 1424 wounded and 35 tanks destroyed at Turda between 11 and 25 September. 410 prisoners and a considerable amount of materiel were captured.

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#8

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 22 Oct 2016, 22:45

Art, that's fantastic info. Thanks for taking the time to find it

The links to pamyat-narodo only show me the top 2cm or so of the page - is that how its supposed to be?

Cheers

Bob

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#9

Post by Art » 23 Oct 2016, 10:47

Must be some technical problem with the website yesterday. Now everything seems to be ok.

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#10

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 23 Oct 2016, 22:34

Working fine now thanks

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#11

Post by Hathor » 10 May 2017, 22:35

Art wrote:Also a report on operation of Soviet armored forces at Turda, Arad and Brasov in September 1944:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=113723640
From the document 6 Guards Tank Army lost 695 men killed, 1424 wounded and 35 tanks destroyed at Turda between 11 and 25 September. 410 prisoners and a considerable amount of materiel were captured.
Is it possible to tell from the available sources if the 35 tanks destroyed were T-34s or M4A2s?

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#12

Post by Zoltan » 11 May 2017, 06:22

Hi from New Zealand!

Can anyone please help me with the Hungarian units at the Battle of Torda (I realise this post is about the Soviet units)? My half brother served with the Hungarian 12th Mountain Battalion and was killed in the fighting on 15 September 1944. I will visit his memorial at Macskakő this August and want to understand what I can about his unit etc.

Many thanks.
Zoltán

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#13

Post by Art » 11 May 2017, 10:09

Hathor wrote: Is it possible to tell from the available sources if the 35 tanks destroyed were T-34s or M4A2s?
Not specified. I think most probably both types.

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#14

Post by Hathor » 11 May 2017, 12:05

Art wrote:
Hathor wrote: Is it possible to tell from the available sources if the 35 tanks destroyed were T-34s or M4A2s?
Not specified. I think most probably both types.
Thank you very much for your straight reply.

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Re: Soviet Units at Turda / Torda 22 Sept 1944

#15

Post by Art » 11 May 2017, 14:05

There are explicit records of T-34 tank losses in the 5 GTC war diary. For example, 11 Sept - 3 T-34 destroyed, 3 damaged. 12 Sept - 4 T-34 destroyed. 16 Sept - 2 T-34 destroyed, 3 damaged. War dairy of the 9 GMC is less specific, but is clear that there were losses of Shermans as well.

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