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Korsun Pocket visit

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.

Korsun Pocket visit

Postby DavidK on 27 Oct 2010 21:18

Hello all

Just back from a trip to Korsun with a group led by Martin (Martinski), I'll put full report and pictures up in due course but in meantime would like to thank Martin for being an excellent host, sharing his in depth knowledge of the battle and for all the work he put in....... We've already asked him to lead another trip into Ukraine for 2011!

D

Edit- the attached pics were just taken with my phone, proper ones to follow
Looking up Gniloy Tikich from Wiking crossing.JPG
Nova Buda road junction.JPG
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby werd on 27 Oct 2010 22:45

at this forum you can find many friends for visit to Ukraine
http://reibert.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3
they search for German trophies in the earth
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Griffin brigade on 26 Nov 2010 18:43

Waiting for more photos David !!

cheers

Paul
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby DavidK on 06 Dec 2010 23:04

Hello Paul

Tried to stick more up tonight but bit of a tech malfunction. I will get this sorted soon as happy to share them.

Off to Kaliningrad (Königsberg) next spring then need to get planning with Martinski for next Ukraine trip

David
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Max Payload on 07 Dec 2010 15:31

The Gniloy Tikich doesn't look much in the photograph posted; I could almost jump across. I guess it must have been a much more imposing barrier in February 1944. I hope you get your technical hitch sorted, I'd be interested to see more photos.
Question - was there any residual evidence of what took place there nearly 67 years ago?
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Martinski on 07 Dec 2010 18:54

Yes Max!

I'm studying the area for many years together with my partner from Kiev and the Staff of the Korsun Museum. Every month I discover leftovers from the Operation (ended February 17th 1944) or collect them at local "scrap dealers"!?

Last month we collected about two tons (2.000 kgs) of leftovers: a Pz. VI (Tiger) track from one of the 1.SS-Pz.Div. "Leibstandarte" tanks lost North of Lyssianka, the bonnet of a half-track made at "Kraus-Maffei", the tracks and roadwheels of one of the Pz. III's belonging to the 5.SS-Frw.Pz.Div. "Wiking", a roadwheel of an 10,5 Arty piece, a lot of steel helmets, Identity Discs from the "Wiking" etc.
If interested, I'll open a new thread and post pictures.

I am working out different guided tours on the Battlefields on the territory of Ukraine (Army Group South); just came back from a phototour in the Ternopol area! David and his group tried out my first proposal: the guided tour of the Korsun Battlefield. David will post an account with pictures and their impressions on this Forum. Soon I'll also post a thread about my proposals regarding my Battlefield guided tours! I'll keep you informed!

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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Griffin brigade on 12 Dec 2010 14:09

Martin i'd be very interested in a thread about your discoveries around the Korsun pocket that would be great so plese post away !!!

regards

Paul
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Max Payload on 12 Dec 2010 15:11

Martinski wrote:a Pz. VI (Tiger) track from one of the 1.SS-Pz.Div. "Leibstandarte" tanks lost North of Lyssianka


Minor detail - I believe it was 1 Pz Dv (part of III Pz Corps) at Lyssianka, not the SS panzer division.

It's fascinating, but maybe not surprising, that there is so much equipment still to be found.
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Martinski on 12 Dec 2010 20:09

Hi Paul!

Many thanks for your interest. I will reply on your pm some later; but no problem concerning a visit!

Minor detail: Source: "Tigers in Combat - Vol II": 16 February 1944: Relief from attachment and movement to Frankovka. Three Tigers
in tow; one operational. One later blown up.

The track of the Pz. VI in question was found at the ford in Frankovka. This village does not exist any longer under this name, it now is joined with Buzhanka. For my studies and research I do rely on the original maps (scale 1:100.000) of the Red Army.

One of my studies (which will be published later) is the discrepancy between the transcription of the Cyrillic denomination of the original villages and geographic names in Russian (or Ukrainian) and their German counterparts. For the time being I am composing a such list which enables a far more detailed research for the non-Russian speakers.
There are a lot of mistakes in these transcriptions, due to the transcription as the Germans used a rather phonetic system to covert these names into German - also tons of such mistakes in literature and especially in "memories" of veterans.

One of my projects is to publish battlefield maps with the actual names and refernces to the historical spots.

Looking forward to meet you on one of the tours!

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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Martinski on 12 Dec 2010 20:12

sorry Paul, forgot to mention in my post that the unit, using the Frankovka ford was indeed: 13./SS-Panzer-Regiment 1. They took defensive positions in Oktyabr, which is the Northern PART of LYSSYANKA.....

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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Max Payload on 12 Dec 2010 21:42

Martinski

Apologies if my info was wrong. It was from Ziemke's 'Stalingrad to Berlin';
"The 1st Panzer Division and Heavy Panzer Regiment Baeke were all that the corps could support north of the river."
My understanding was that 1 SS Pz Dv joined Breith late in the advance and was further west, protecting the corps' northern flank in the Zhabianka area. I don't know where Frankovka is in relation to III Pz Corps' push to the Gniloy Tikich.
I look forward to seeing your battlefield map. Please let us know when it is published.
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby Martinski on 12 Dec 2010 21:55

ok Paul! In fact we're both correct! Both units (13./SS-Panzer-Regiment 1 and Gruppe Bäke) were almost together in their rush up North towards the encircled troops inside the "Kessel". Both reached Lyssyanka and took defensive positions in Lyssyanka and Oktyabr. The encircled troops started their march to the rescue from Khilki (North) and from Shenderowka (South). 13./SS-Panzer-Regiment 1 and Gruppe Bäke supported them during their advance.

Will open a new thread to show you the recent finds. I am also working out a new website in order to promote my Eastern Front Battlefield Tours. Specialty: Army Group South. I am Flemish but multilingual (Russian etc.) and traveling in Russia and Ukraine for more than 20 years.

Thanks - Martin
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby DavidK on 12 Dec 2010 22:37

New Images
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby DavidK on 12 Dec 2010 22:54

More images
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Re: Korsun Pocket visit

Postby DavidK on 12 Dec 2010 23:29

More images including The DIrector of Korsun Museum who was incredibly helpful, whilst her musuem does not have the scale of the Kiev one it has a more intimate feel.

Martin- I've taken The Directors name from her signature on my book and know I will have mispelt it. Please help me out!
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Last edited by DavidK on 13 Dec 2010 18:24, edited 1 time in total.
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