Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

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tigre
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#16

Post by tigre » 14 Mar 2013, 03:24

Thanks for sharing it here :wink:...........Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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John Hilly
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#17

Post by John Hilly » 14 Mar 2013, 13:12

Great!

With best,............... J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"


lufty1
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#18

Post by lufty1 » 14 Mar 2013, 14:11

those photos of german tanks ko'd of 3rd panzer - maybe someone with access to division/regiment history could place the location from the turret numbers

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Yuri
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#19

Post by Yuri » 16 Mar 2013, 09:53

lufty1 wrote:I found this in a book i own - two soldiers two lost fronts. It has a diary of IIabt pz reg 201 of 23 panzer div. There are 7 pages on the relief of ternovaia.

Air support is mentioned several times
Some episodes according to German soldiers and the corporals participating in battle on May, 14-15th 1942.

Source: TsAMO RF f. 331, o. 5041, d. 2, l. 13


The REPORT № 50
INTERROGATIONS of PRISONERS of war of CORPORAL THE TANK DRIVER of 10th COMPANY 3rd BATTALION of 201st TANK REGIMENT of 23rd TANK DIVISION WASCHCKE FRANZ, the CORPORAL of THE BRANCH COMMANDER of 2nd COMPANY 23rd MOTORCYCLE BATTALION of 23rd TANK DIVISION and MORE 16 TANKMENS and MOTORCYCLISTS of the SAME DIVISION captured on MAY, 13-15TH, 1942 ON the KHARKOV DIRECTION.

23rd tank division has started to be formed on October, 4th, 1941 in Paris and its vicinities. After defeat of France, the staff of first company 5th tank regiment of 3rd tank division has been left in Paris, and the regiment is filled up and thrown to Africa. From this company in Paris 203rd tank battalion consisting from three companies has been generated. The battalion has received the French tanks on arms and was in submission of the German garrison of Paris.

In the first of October, 1941 the battalion has handed over the French tanks in park, and its staff has been betrayed in again formed 23rd tank division. This battalion was base for formation of 201st tank regiment. Since October, 15th replenishment for formation of units of a division has started to arrive. The basic contingent of staff has arrived from 1st spare tank battalion to ERFURT, from 2nd spare tank battalion in SCHWETIZINGEN (Baden), from 120th spare infantry battalion (mot.) in DANZING.

Besides, the staff for 23rd tank division has arrived from among recovering, and also from various existing infantry and cavalry units.

Contingent of replenishment arrived from spare battalions of a birth 1922-23

Recruits basically were in spare battalions 2-3 months and have received only the general infantry combat training. Replenishment arrived throughout all time of stay of a division in Paris /4 October, 1941 - on March, 15th, 1942/. By the moment of a transfer of a division to Kharkov /15 March, 1942/, it has not been fully completed both staff, and an equipment. Still on May, 13th to Kharkov there has arrived replenishment from Germany. 3rd battalion of 201st tank regiment has been only completed in Kharkov.

Tanks, motor vehicles and motorcycles the division has started to receive in the beginning of December, 1941. The equipment received gradually till moment the departure to Kharkov. However completely it has not been completed. Already being in Kharkov still received a part of tanks and motor vehicles and by the moment of performance of a division on front tanks and as by arms it has not been completed. In the majority a company’s instead of 17 tanks put on staff there were only 16 tanks. Besides, in company there were no light platoons /tanks of type II/, the German tank divisions put according to staff. According to staff in each branch company two light machine guns should be motorcycle, but almost in all branches the shooting motorcycle company’s of 23rd motorcycle battalion was only on one light machine gun. The officers for the period of formation of 23rd tank division several times varied, so, for example, from October, 1941 till May, 1942 in a motorcycle battalion 4 commanders of a battalion were replaced.

The prisoner of war gunner SKWIRA has shown, that for all time of training it only two times shot and has let out on the purpose for all time of training of 10 shells. From 15 crews of 10th company only two crews already served earlier in the tank units, and 13 crews of call 1941 and participated for the first time in fight.

Tanks which were received by a division, on 50 % new and on 50 % old, passed factory repair. The division has received about 40 % of the French motor vehicles, motorcycles all new of type Р-75 release 1941.
From France the division has started to leave on the Soviet-German front on March, 15th. Last echelon has departure from Paris on April, 4-5th.

On May, 12th the tank regiment has with its full complement left from Kharkov /tractor factory/ and moved on road to Chuguev. Behind airdrome which is on the right side to Chuguev, the regiment has curtailed on the left and moved without roads. On May, 13th 201st tank regiment should begin approach, but in connection with approach of Russian units the regiment has been thrown for break liquidation. On May, 14th tanks of regiment the first time participated in fights. The division yet has no recognition symbol. There was an order on a division in which it was said, that the division will be called as "Parisian" and its recognition symbol will be Eiffel Tower. Till now this recognition symbol on tanks and motor vehicles is not drawn yet.
Number of field mail of 10th company 01650 B.

II. The ORGANIZATION And ARMS of 201st TANK REGIMENT

201st tank regiment consists of three batallions. As a part of each batallion enters three companies. Each company consists their three full platoons and one semiplatoon. The first batallion consists of 1st, 4th, 2nd companies, the second batallion from 5th, 6th both 8th companies and the third batallion from 9th, 10th, 12th companies.
1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 10th companies on the organisation identical also are called as companies of average tanks.
At the head the shelf stands the regiment commander with the headquarters.
At a headquarters of the regiment commander is available two tanks of type III and an light platoon which consists of one tank of type III /commander of an light platoon / and four tanks of type II. The tank of the regiment commander is not armed, a gun and machine guns breadboard models.
The crew of the tank of the regiment commander consists of two persons - the driver and the radio operator. In the second tank during battle there is an aide-de-camp of the regiment commander. The crew of the tank of an aide-de-camp consists of four persons. Besides, at a headquarters of the regiment commander there are 4 motorcycles for communication, from them two sidecar machines.
Headquarters of batallions on the organisation identical. At a headquarters of batallions just as at a headquarters of the regiment commander is available three tanks III and four tanks of type II. Light platoon in a headquarters carry out of a mission of near investigation and personal errands of commanders of a headquarters.

The organisations of a company of average tanks.

The company commander has two tanks of type III. On one it goes personally, and the second spare, on a case of failure of the tank. In the second tank the tank commander goes sergeant-major (feldwebel) or the corporal.
Each platoon has on five tanks of type - III, one tank of the platoon commander and four tanks battle. In total in a company of 17 tanks of type - III. The company commander and commanders of platoons have tanks of release of 1941 with reinforced the front reservation and the extended trunk of the gun. In each company there are 4 tanks of release of 1941.
According to regular norm in each company there should be tanks of type II. According to prisoners of war in 201st tank to a shelf till May, 10th in each company there were 1-2 tanks of type II, but the order on May, 10th has been obtained to hand over all tanks of type II, ostensibly, for guards of backs of a division.

The organisation of a company of heavy tanks.

The company of heavy tanks consists of 3 platoons on 4 tanks of type IV in everyone: In total in a company of 12 tanks of type IV. These companies during battle do not operate as independent tactical units, are given to two other companies for fire support / the tank artillery/. The company of heavy tanks can operate during battle on flanks of companies of average tanks or in battle usages of the last.
Therefore the company commander of heavy tanks has no tank and he own company in battle does not accompany.
Each tank of the commander, beginning from the platoon commander and above, has the reception-transferring radio station, all other tanks have only reception radio sets. Communication during battle by radio in clear. Auxiliary communication the alarm system serves as tags and rockets.
The crew of the tank of type II consists of three persons. Crew of tanks of type - III and IV from five persons - tank commander, driver, radio operator, charge man and marksman-gunner.

IN TOTAL In TANK REGIMENT of PEOPLE And TANKS /only tank crews /
Officers and feldwebels … … … … … … … … …. 49
Corporals and soldiers … … … … … … … … … … 791
--------------------------
In total … … … 840 people

Tanks of type II … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 16
Tanks of type III with long trunk … … …. 24
Tanks of type III with short trunk … …. … …. 90
Tanks of type IV … … … … … … … … …. … … … … 36
--------------------------
In total … … … 166 tanks.

According to prisoner of war WASCHKE in 201st tank a regiment on 15.5.42 in each company of average tanks did not suffice on one tank of type III with a short trunk and in each company of heavy tanks on 2-3 tanks of type - IV.
ARMS OF TANKS

Arms of tanks of type - II
20 mm gun … … … … ….1
Machine guns … … … … … … 1
Machine guns-pistols …. 1

Arms of tanks of type - III
50 mm gun … … … … ….1
Machine guns … … … … … … 2
Machine guns-pistols.... 1

Arms of tanks of type - IV
75 mm gun … … … … ….1
Machine guns … … … … … … 2
Machine guns-pistols ….1

The COMPLETE SET of the AMMUNITION FOR TANKS х)

For the tank of type II
20 mm an armour-piercing shell a cartridge … …. 69
20 mm an armour-piercing shell 40 cartridge … 21
20 mm a demolition shell a cartridge … … …. 90
IN TOTAL … … … … … … … … … … 180

Peaked bullets with the steel core … … … … … … … … 750
Peaked bullets with the steel core tracing …. 750
Cartridges for a machine gun-pistol … … … … … … … … … … … … … ….832
Smoke candle … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …. 12

For the tank of type III
50 mm an armour-piercing shell cartridge 38 … 28
50 mm an armour-piercing shell 40 cartridge …. … 14
50 mm a demolition shell cartridge …. …. (12?, 18?, 42?)
IN TOTAL … … … … … … … … … … 180

Peaked bullets with the steel core … … … … … … … 2050
Peaked bullets with the steel core tracing. … ….... 2000
Cartridges for a machine gun-pistol … … … … … … … … … … … … ….832

x) Complete sets of an ammunition are confirmed by trophy documents.

For tanks of type III with a short trunk
50 mm an armour-piercing shell … … … … … …. … 33
50 mm an armour-piercing shell 40 cartridge …. … 15
50 mm a demolition shell cartridge …. …. 49

IN TOTAL:. … … … … … … … … … … … … … …. 97

Peaked bullets with the steel core … … … … … … … 2050
Peaked bullets with the steel core tracing … ….... 2000
Cartridges for a machine gun-pistol … … … … … … … … … … … … ….832
Manual egg-shaped a pomegranate … … … … … … … … … … … … … 15
Smoke candles … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … ….12


For tanks of type IV
75 m an armour-piercing shell … … 15
75 mm of shells …. … … … …. 60
75 mm of smoke shells. …. 5

TOTAL: … … … … … … … … ….80

Peaked bullets with the steel core … … … … … … … 2050
Peaked bullets with the steel core tracing … ….... 2000
Cartridges for a machine gun-pistol … … … … … … … … … … … … ….832
Manual egg-shaped a pomegranate … … … … … … … … … … … … … 15
Smoke candles … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … ….12

Shooting from guns and machine guns is conducted only from a short stop or because of shelter. Descent shooting will sometimes be applied to moral influence. The armour-piercing shell 40 serves only for defeat of tanks of the opponent. Its penetrative ability above, than an armour-piercing shell 38. According to prisoners of war during theoretical employment to them said, that the armour-piercing shell 40 pierces armour all Russian tanks at favorable corner of hit, on a distance to 200 metres.

Tactics-specifications of the tank of type III.

Weight of the tank with a long trunk about 20 tons, with short - 18 tons., length of 5,1 m., width of 3,1 m., height of 2,9 m., a road clearance - 0,4 metres.
The engine - petrol, 4 four-cycle, 12 cylinder.
Capacity of the motor of 320 horsepowers at 3000 rpm.
Reserve of fuel of 310 litres, cooling water. The maximum speed of 45-50 km/hour. Overcome lifting 40-45.
Width of an overcome ditch - 2 metres. Depth of overcome ford - 0,6 metres.
The armour: front at tanks with a long trunk - 40 mm, with a short trunk of 30 mm, onboard 30 mm, roofs of 20-25 mm, a bottom of 15 mm, towers of 30-35 millimetres.
Onboard 30 mm, roofs of 20-25 mm, a bottom of 15 mm, towers 30-35 (so in the document - Yuri).
About specifications of tanks of type II and IV prisoner of war it is not known.

Transportation of an ammunition and fuel.

Each company has 8-9 lorries. Three of these motor vehicles regularly bring up fuel and an ammunition directly to tanks. Other motor vehicles are a part of a headquarters company of batallions. The headquarters company receives fuel, an ammunition and the foodstuffs from a division. The headquarters company is in 3-4 km from a front line. Fuel moves to tanks in the tin sealed up cans on 20 kg. In everyone.
3,5 tons the lorry takes 90-95 cans. The fill is usually made at night. The car with fuel approaches on tanks, and each driver receives necessary quantity of fuel. For a fill of tanks of a platoon 30 minutes are required. From May, 12 till May, 15th tanks refuelled once. An ammunition did not receive for this time, as has been engaged to action on May, 14th at night. As transportation of fuel and an ammunition from a division in headquarters companies of a batallion prisoners of war will be organised do not know.

Repair and restoration of the failed tanks.

In each company there is a repair brigade which makes small repair directly in the field of battle and halts. The structure of a repair brigade includes three mechanics. In the brigade order there is one automobile motor vehicle, one cargo motor vehicle on which is transported the tool both small spare parts and one motorcycle for communication with regiment repair shops.
If the repair brigade not in a condition to repair the tank, she through messenger on a motorcycle informs in repair shops of a regiment which immediately send tractors for sending of the failed tanks in repair shops.
According to prisoners of war regiment repair shops have two tractors on a caterpillar drive for towage of padded tanks. Workshops are equipped by the difficult machine tools established on motor vehicles and in a condition to make average repair. The organisation and throughput of workshops is unknown to prisoners of war.

The organisation 23 motorcycle batallions.
23rd motorcycle batallion consists of five companies. At the head of a batallion there is a commander with the headquarters.

(Sorry, continuation next time - Yuri)

lufty1
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#20

Post by lufty1 » 05 Jan 2015, 16:00

Here is a few more pages in pdf in german from a soldier of 23 panzer about the relief effort towards Ternovaia
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Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien109.pdf
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Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien108.pdf
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Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien107.pdf
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Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien106.pdf
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Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien105.pdf
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lufty1
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#21

Post by lufty1 » 05 Jan 2015, 16:02

Here is a map from 23 pz history
Attachments
Walter Werner - Kriegsnotizien110.pdf
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Howling Wolf
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Re: Ternovaia Kharkov May 1942

#22

Post by Howling Wolf » 21 Feb 2019, 15:38

The maps above show 3 PzD movements on Ternovaia. 23rd PzD was the first to send in an armored and panzergrenadier group into the village on the morning/afternoon on 16 May - the 4th day of the Soviet major offensive. However the Soviets encircled the village again after II./PR 201 and I./SR (grenadiers) broke through. Before the Soviet major offensive started on 12 May, 3rd PzD divisional history (Armored Bears V.2) describes the Soviet small scale offensives in detail during March and April. Kampfgruppe Gruner is mentioned multiple times in these clashes and with soldiers from another infantry division, the 429th, already listed above, in support. Later the soldiers of the 429th were relieved by the 294th which is listed as the infantry encircled at Ternovaia in the 23rd divisional history once the Soviet major offensive began. I have an OP pertaining to the table of organization and equipment of 23rd PzD during this period. The same for the 3rd PzD would be helpful.


Oberst Grunner is also someone I am going to research. He was constantly commanding kampfgruppes throughout the beginning of March until the beginning of the main Soviet offensive except for a brief period when he was sick. It seems after recovering they threw him right back to the front. He must have been quite a capable and reliable commander.

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