enemy at the gates. historical fact?

[Yngwie J.]

The Readers Digest published in 1973 a story by William Craig entitled "Enemy at the Gates : the Battle for Stalingrad".

William Craig uses the name Koning on the German sniper-ace, and describes the duel between him and Zaitsev taking place somewhere between Mamaev Hill and the Red October Plant in Stalingrad, in the fall of 1942.

[tankdriver]

The Readers Digest published in 1973 a story by William Craig entitled "Enemy at the Gates : the Battle for Stalingrad".

William Craig uses the name Koning on the German sniper-ace, and describes the duel between him and Zaitsev taking place somewhere between Mamaev Hill and the Red October Plant in Stalingrad, in the fall of 1942.

The History Channel also says it happened, BUT think about it for a couple of minutes
1 Not listed in offical Russian Records
2 Zaitsev never says it happened
3 No record of Thorvald and/or Konig in German records
4 German snipers were never above a SGT.
5 One says SS sniper school one says Army sniper school

[Yngwie J.]

Hey, I don´t think this duel ever happened. I believe it´s just one of many hard lived legends from WW2. I just thought the modest information I provided could be of interest to those who would like to find out more about the roots to this legend.



Yngwie

[tankdriver]

Hey, I don´t think this duel ever happened. I believe it´s just one of many hard lived legends from WW2. I just thought the modest information I provided could be of interest to those who would like to find out more about the roots to this legend.



Yngwie

No problem, I'm just relaying why I feel the way I do.

[Hans Östermann]

You guy's say that there we're no woman snipers until 1943, but we're not talking about any battle here, we're talking about Stalingrad well in the horors of Stalingrad eny woman could have picked up a sniper rifle and killed German's. But enyway I agree with Mr.Worst No Sturmbannführer Thorwald of König fought as a Sniper in Stalingrad but we will never know the truth.

Regards.
Hans.

[Reichenberg 40]

I know this is an old thread but I was also interested in accuracy of the movie. I watched it on television last night. For example, did the Soviets really send their soldiers into battle the way it was depicted in the movie, ill-equipped and with orders to shoot of the soldiers retreated? Also, according to the movie, the Germans are launching an offensive against a Russia bridgehead in late November or early December of 1942. Would that not have been unlikely at that time as the Sixth Army was itself surrounded and fighting for its life?

Reichenberg 40

[Art]

I would advice to make a search in Google, there was a vast number of discussions about this movie. As concerns you questions:
1. There are no known facts of sending first-line units to battle deliberately unarmed. The existing mythology of that kind is either based on real cases of the lack of small-rams in irregular formations (destroyer battalions, militia)or is borrowed from the WWI times. Compare: "The tzarist army suffered one defeat after other. The German artillery bombarded tzarist troops with a pour of shells. The tzarist army lacked guns, lacked shells, lacked even rifles. Sometimes there was one rifle per three soldiers" ("The brief course of the VKP(b)'s history", 1938)
2. The folowing thread can give useful information about the activity of the blocking detachments in the Stalingrad battle
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=31325

[tankdriver]

I know this is an old thread but I was also interested in accuracy of the movie. I watched it on television last night. For example, did the Soviets really send their soldiers into battle the way it was depicted in the movie, ill-equipped and with orders to shoot of the soldiers retreated? Also, according to the movie, the Germans are launching an offensive against a Russia bridgehead in late November or early December of 1942. Would that not have been unlikely at that time as the Sixth Army was itself surrounded and fighting for its life?

Reichenberg 40

They even walked Russian prisioners to clear mine fields in front of military units.

[Art]

AFAIU the sole source for allegation of such mine-clearing practice was hte heavily quoted part of Eisenhower's memoir describing his meeting with Zhukov, and it should be noted that Eienhower wrote about regular soldiers but not prisoners. There are serious reasons to expect that the whole piece was the result of mistranslation or/and alcohol they had on the party. At least no other source with such information exist and the known instructions on milefield clearence tend to speak about such prosaic matters as extended charges, trollyes and hand grenades rather than about prisoners.

[Oldwardog]

What is your take on the mid jump shot that killed the Soviet sniper? I rate it implausible,as there would be no way to predict when the jump started,and even an expert sniper couldn't react fast enough to get off an accurate shot.

[Mauser K98k]

What is your take on the mid jump shot that killed the Soviet sniper? I rate it implausible,as there would be no way to predict when the jump started,and even an expert sniper couldn't react fast enough to get off an accurate shot.

I would tend to agree. There apparently was much "artistic license" taken in the screenplay for this film. The true gruesome drudgery of the battle for two solid hours would probably bore a movie audience, so they insert this kind of stuff to make it more "interesting".