Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Are there any late January 1945 Russian reports, video or photographs of what the Russians actually found when they occupied the Wolfsschanze complex in late January 1945? I've never found anything even though there must have been reports written for Stavka and Stalin and currently sitting in archives somewhere.
Also, nothing from Polish sources in the period 1945-1950. This information no doubt would be very interesting if it could be uncovered.
All we see now when we visit is a pile of overgrown ruins with no historical context relating it to the actual period of its destruction and subsequent discovery.
The same goes for Werwolf in the Ukraine.
Also, nothing from Polish sources in the period 1945-1950. This information no doubt would be very interesting if it could be uncovered.
All we see now when we visit is a pile of overgrown ruins with no historical context relating it to the actual period of its destruction and subsequent discovery.
The same goes for Werwolf in the Ukraine.
Re: WOLFSSCHANZE - RUSSIAN OCCUPATION OF
There was a report to Stalin and Beria by Colonel-General VS Abakumov from the NKVD of the 3rd Belorussian Front -
ЦАРФ 9401/2/93 pages 6-15.
It's all close to conspiracy theories, but apparently the whole area was swept by SMERSH and everything of any value shipped to Russia. Also apparently they completed demolition of the bunkers.
Then it was handed over to Polish Army. They cleared tens of thousands of land mines around the complex from 1945 to 1955.
http://www.necton.lv/component/content/article/6.html
ЦАРФ 9401/2/93 pages 6-15.
It's all close to conspiracy theories, but apparently the whole area was swept by SMERSH and everything of any value shipped to Russia. Also apparently they completed demolition of the bunkers.
Then it was handed over to Polish Army. They cleared tens of thousands of land mines around the complex from 1945 to 1955.
http://www.necton.lv/component/content/article/6.html
Re: WOLFSSCHANZE - RUSSIAN OCCUPATION OF
The page down the link has some confusion with dates. Beevor says most clearly that Abakumov with his entourage visited WS on 14 February 1945 not 14 January. Quite naturally he couldn't send a report on this on 22 January. That the are was under German control on 14.01.45 can be seen from the most superficial glance on the situation map. Moreover there is no Russian archive called TsARF, there is the State Archive of the Rus.Federation or GARF.GregSingh wrote: http://www.necton.lv/component/content/article/6.html
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
I'm aware of Beevor's recap; but am thinking that the actual report(s) with any supporting visual documentation should be out there in public view somewhere in the Russian Federation - particularly after all the archive record releases in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Correct.
Beevor book is here: http://militera.lib.ru/research/beevor2/index.html
And it points to ГАРФ - Ф. Р-9401. Оп. 2. Д. 93
Beevor book is here: http://militera.lib.ru/research/beevor2/index.html
And it points to ГАРФ - Ф. Р-9401. Оп. 2. Д. 93
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Very good, already known information; BUT as stated earlier, how do we actually get to the original, DETAILED documents themselves?
Beevor typically does a good job summarizing his research; but he is summarizing what was found. I suspect there is interesting information in the details - particularly photographs and video.
Beevor typically does a good job summarizing his research; but he is summarizing what was found. I suspect there is interesting information in the details - particularly photographs and video.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
The territory round a complex was mined. It was dangerous to go and photograph there.bubalma wrote:Very good, already known information; BUT as stated earlier, how do we actually get to the original, DETAILED documents themselves?
Beevor typically does a good job summarizing his research; but he is summarizing what was found. I suspect there is interesting information in the details - particularly photographs and video.
Clearing of the German minefields round a complex was carried out by PNR army in two stages from 1945 to 1956.
http://translate.google.by/translate?sl ... %25D0%25BE
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Bump.
Still looking for contemporary photographs, written reports and/or video from January/February 1945 showing or summarizing the condition of Wolfschanze when the Russian army entered the complex in late January 1945.
My interest is as a result of comments made by a relative who was a sapper from Kampfgruppe Hauser (tasked with the German demolition) who stated that the damage done to the complex by his group was significant; but that the Russians had obviously done much more demolition work after their occupation of the complex based on what he saw when he visited the complex in the late 80's.
Still looking for contemporary photographs, written reports and/or video from January/February 1945 showing or summarizing the condition of Wolfschanze when the Russian army entered the complex in late January 1945.
My interest is as a result of comments made by a relative who was a sapper from Kampfgruppe Hauser (tasked with the German demolition) who stated that the damage done to the complex by his group was significant; but that the Russians had obviously done much more demolition work after their occupation of the complex based on what he saw when he visited the complex in the late 80's.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Bump
Anybody?
Anybody?
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
http://wolfsschanze.pl/index.php/historia
Slightly polished Google translation:
Slightly polished Google translation:
Perhaps the additional "destruction' was from the removal of materials from the site? Why demine and then destroy?Destruction Accommodation
In October 1944, the Red Army reached the eastern border of East Prussia. Therefore, on 20 November 1944 the headquarters were moved to Zossen near Berlin. Two days later, destruction of Wolf's Lair was ordered. Its execution took place the night of 24 to 25 January 1945. Huge concrete blocks flew through the air distances of 20-30 meters.
As the witnesses, as a result of shock ice cracked on the nearby lakes and Siercze Genesis. It is estimated that about eight tonnes of explosives were used to blow up only one bunker .
On 27 January 1945. Red Army troops captured without a fight Hitler's former military headquarters.
Demining the area lasted until 1955. was found and secured more than 54 thousand. min. In total, 72 hectares of forest and more than 52 hectares of land were demined. After the war, the nearby Polish population of Kętrzyna used for construction materials - are often not used during the construction of the Wolf's Lair - for their own business purposes. Hence transported brick, steel reinforcement, paneling, cube stone, copper and aluminum wires, clay pipes and camouflage netting.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Good point.
My uncle actually saw where most of the buried electrical and communication cabling and water system had been dug up and salvaged; but he also said that there had been significantly more actual demolition work done to the concrete bunkers and brick huts.
I understand the salvaging of bricks from the huts; but I doubt there was anything to be gained by local residents from further apparently explosive demolitions of the concrete bunkers.
That is why it would be interesting to see or read what the Soviet army actually found on site in late January 1945.
His position was that the Russians found only a very partially destroyed installation although he said great care was taken to destroy Hitler's bunker as much as possible.
My uncle actually saw where most of the buried electrical and communication cabling and water system had been dug up and salvaged; but he also said that there had been significantly more actual demolition work done to the concrete bunkers and brick huts.
I understand the salvaging of bricks from the huts; but I doubt there was anything to be gained by local residents from further apparently explosive demolitions of the concrete bunkers.
That is why it would be interesting to see or read what the Soviet army actually found on site in late January 1945.
His position was that the Russians found only a very partially destroyed installation although he said great care was taken to destroy Hitler's bunker as much as possible.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
Have you searched wolfsschanze on Google images? Maybe some of the links there can help.
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
I have and actually was there myself in 1991 before all the commercialization. Explored everything and saw the signs that cabling and water supplies had been dug up and I assume salvaged.
I've found no period photos or written report online from 1945 - 1950 at all.
In 1991, Masuria was really the backwoods. A funny thing on the way to the Wolfsschanze from Torun: I was driving a new Volvo I'd rented in Stockholm and was stopped for speeding by a traffic policeman running one of those old fashioned radars on a tripod out in the middle of nowhere. Really nice guy. Came up to the car and asked for my license, registration and American passport. I handed over the passport, he looked at it and said in halting English, "Diplomat?" I wasn't but I just nodded my head and he smiled and sent me merrily on my way. Fast driving in those days outside of the villages, horse carts and flocks of geese on the roads!
Don't want to talk though about the traffic stop just outside Kolobrzeg when I was already running late for catching the Ystad ferry (or how tough it was to get unleaded fuel in Poland back then)!
I've found no period photos or written report online from 1945 - 1950 at all.
In 1991, Masuria was really the backwoods. A funny thing on the way to the Wolfsschanze from Torun: I was driving a new Volvo I'd rented in Stockholm and was stopped for speeding by a traffic policeman running one of those old fashioned radars on a tripod out in the middle of nowhere. Really nice guy. Came up to the car and asked for my license, registration and American passport. I handed over the passport, he looked at it and said in halting English, "Diplomat?" I wasn't but I just nodded my head and he smiled and sent me merrily on my way. Fast driving in those days outside of the villages, horse carts and flocks of geese on the roads!
Don't want to talk though about the traffic stop just outside Kolobrzeg when I was already running late for catching the Ystad ferry (or how tough it was to get unleaded fuel in Poland back then)!
Re: Wolfsschanze - Russian occupation of
There are 10-20 '46 pictures in Polish National Archive (NAC.pl), but I can't find them on line up to date.
You can find some snapshots using links:
'73 document http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjGbB6KFCQ at 39:00 ('46-'55 mine fields)
'46 newsreel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydL3jbEVNXY at 09:00 ('46 shots in very poor quality)
The headquarters was released to polish autorities by Russians in 1946. As far I know, there were no so called russian demolitions over there. Some brick buildings (like casino number 2 - former Kurhaus) was demolished by colonists in 50-ties. All wooden not destroyed barracks, cables, water supplies, other usefull facilities and all building materials stored in quite large amounts were salvaged and used in capital city Warsaw reconstruction.
Regards
Zen
You can find some snapshots using links:
'73 document http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjGbB6KFCQ at 39:00 ('46-'55 mine fields)
'46 newsreel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydL3jbEVNXY at 09:00 ('46 shots in very poor quality)
The headquarters was released to polish autorities by Russians in 1946. As far I know, there were no so called russian demolitions over there. Some brick buildings (like casino number 2 - former Kurhaus) was demolished by colonists in 50-ties. All wooden not destroyed barracks, cables, water supplies, other usefull facilities and all building materials stored in quite large amounts were salvaged and used in capital city Warsaw reconstruction.
Regards
Zen