Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

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Kelvin
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Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#1

Post by Kelvin » 26 Jun 2014, 20:30

Hi, I would like to ask about battle of Minsk-Bialystok in June 1941, Some sources said it encircled only 3rd and 10th Armies, some included 4th Army, some also included Front reserves, I want to know if the whole of the Western Front was encircled in Minsk-Bialoystok area ? The capture of Brest-Litovsk in 4th Army sector is included in this battle ? And exactly how many divisions were encircled in pocket at the end ?
Last edited by Kelvin on 27 Jun 2014, 16:47, edited 1 time in total.

Art
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1944

#2

Post by Art » 26 Jun 2014, 22:03

HQ of the 4 Army was not in the pocket as well as most troops. Only 49 Rifle Division belonging to the army was encircled. the HQ of the 3 Army was encircled but managed to break out. The following map might be useful regarding exact situation:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/ ... l11_41.jpg


Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1944

#3

Post by Kelvin » 27 Jun 2014, 08:13

Hi, Art, I cannot open the link.

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Kingfish
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1944

#4

Post by Kingfish » 27 Jun 2014, 12:06

FYI, the title of the thread says June 1944
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1944

#5

Post by Kelvin » 27 Jun 2014, 15:45

Kelvin wrote:Hi, Art, I cannot open the link.
Hi, Art, now I can open the link suddenly, thank so much for your help :)

Art
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#6

Post by Art » 28 Jun 2014, 11:34

According to the West Front staff encircled and completely destroyed were the following units:
4 rifle corps HQ
3 mechanized corps with 9 tank and 3 motorized divisions
1 cavalry corps with 2 cavalry divisions
1/2 of the airborne corps
10 rifle divisions
3 antitank brigades
4 artillery regiments
with an estimated strength of 253 000 men
Which were apparently the following:
1, 4, 5, 21 Rifle Corps HQ, 6, 11, 13 Mechanized Corps HQ, 6 Cavalry Corps HQ
2, 8, 13, 27, 37, 49, 56, 85, 86, 113 Rifle Divisions
3, 36 Cavalry Divisions
4, 7, 25, 29, 31, 33 Tank Divisions
29, 204, 208 Motorized Divisions
6, 7, 8 AT brigades
That doesn't include units that were encircled but managed to survive.

Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#7

Post by Kelvin » 28 Jun 2014, 18:53

Hi, Art, thank for your additional data on troops in Minsk-Bialoystok battle, in accordance with your map, I see only 17th and 24th from deleted 21st Rifle Corps and entire 44th Rifle Corps escaped the encirclment, but I would think 3 mechanized Corps should more easily came out of the pocket.

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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#8

Post by Art » 29 Jun 2014, 11:16

64 and 108 Rifle Divisions were encircled westof Minsk as well but broke out. My understanding is that the front around the Misnk pocket was less dense than around Belostok and the distance to friendly lines shorter, hence different outcome.

Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#9

Post by Kelvin » 29 Jun 2014, 17:30

Hi, Art, thank for your reply. I see a book said that Hitler was nervous about this battle and he was worried about Guderian Panzer group go too far and ordered he turned back and complete or narrow the pocket, but Guderian think his thrust would led to breakdown of Soviet command and communication.

Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#10

Post by Kelvin » 08 Jul 2014, 19:09

Hi, Art, did the captured of Brest-Litovsk by German XII Armeekorps and 14th Mech.Corps 's counterattack considered the separate battles in Byelorussia or also included in Battle of Minsk-Bialoystok ?

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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#11

Post by Art » 09 Jul 2014, 22:00

In Russian literature all this is called defensive operation on Belorussia.

Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#12

Post by Kelvin » 17 Jun 2016, 10:52

Hi, Art, may I ask you if you have any docment for casualties for individual divisions for 10th Army at Bialystok and 3rd Army at Minsk ? If you have some, may you post some, I want to compare this to German figures on that battle. Thank

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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#13

Post by Orinik » 17 Jun 2016, 13:26


Kelvin
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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#14

Post by Kelvin » 17 Jun 2016, 19:24

Orinik wrote:Some answers you may find here: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/jbd/?date_from ... 1%82%D0%B8

Hi, Orinik, thank for your link. However, I don't know that language.

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Re: Question on Minsk-Bialystok battle June 1941

#15

Post by Art » 19 Jun 2016, 10:45

Kelvin wrote:Hi, Art, may I ask you if you have any docment for casualties for individual divisions for 10th Army at Bialystok and 3rd Army at Minsk ?
I guess, most units in question simply ceased to exist so there was nobody to compile any reports. Even if some personnel survived and joined other Soviet units there were no efforts to track the numbers. The initial divisional strength is known actually. As of 1 June 1941:
3 Army
27 Rifle Division - 10 012 men
56 Rifle Division - 10 163
85 Rifle Division - 10 262
10 Army
2 RD - 9 947
8 RD - 10 116
13 RD - 9 952
86 RD - 10 258
113 RD - 10 375
155 RD - 9 9966
4 Army
6 RD - 10 013
42 RD - 9 958
49 RD - 10 128
75 RD - 10 070
Under district's command
17 RD - 9 942
24 RD - 10 090
37 RD - 10 022
50 RD - 10 022
55 RD - 10 089
64 RD - 5 735
100 RD - 10 018
108 RD - 5 379
121 RD - 9 900
143 RD - 5 781
161 RD - 5 398
("Na zemle Belarusi...", 2006)
Beginning from 22 June mobilization must provide some number of reservist, but how many is difficult to account.

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