XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
Post Reply
User avatar
BDV
Member
Posts: 3704
Joined: 10 Apr 2009, 17:11

XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#1

Post by BDV » 30 Oct 2014, 16:55

Did XIth infantry Corps salvage their stores of ammo/provisions and heavy weapons when withdrawing to the Stalingrad Kessel, or did they lose them?
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

User avatar
Mr.No one
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 11:20
Location: Denmark

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#2

Post by Mr.No one » 11 Nov 2014, 23:53

BDV wrote:Did XIth infantry Corps salvage their stores of ammo/provisions and heavy weapons when withdrawing to the Stalingrad Kessel, or did they lose them?
I think they actually did okay, especially in light of the fact that they managed to keep the pace of their withdrawal relatively low, due to insufficient and ineffective Soviet measures to encircle the whole of XI Korps.

The divisions got regrouped after they had been withdrawn from the western bank of the Don, were certainly not crippled, and played a crucial role in the establishment of the Kessel front. So all in all, the withdrawal of the XI Korps was a significant offensive defeat to the Soviet 65th and 24th Armies and proved to be a defensive success for German Sixth Army.
Believe in truth!


User avatar
BDV
Member
Posts: 3704
Joined: 10 Apr 2009, 17:11

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#3

Post by BDV » 13 Nov 2014, 18:44

I am still amiss to what (if any) fraction of stores/heavy weapons were withdrawn to the kessel, and what was lost during withdrawal. The Kessel (as such) had plenty of defenders, anyway, even without the XIth Corps.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

Dann Falk
Member
Posts: 575
Joined: 02 Mar 2009, 19:34
Location: California - USA

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#4

Post by Dann Falk » 13 Nov 2014, 19:52

As a partial answer to your question...
From Endgame at Stalingrad Vol 3 - David Glantz

Page. 435 "The German XI Corps was able to conduct a fairly systematic withdraw from their bridgehead..." across the Don.

Page. 439 Soviet account. "While withdrawing...the enemy left mobile detachments behind" to hold up the Soviet forces. and then on "25 Nov the 252 RD reported to have captured 103 vehicles, 3 aircraft, 52 guns, and 32 AT guns".

Page. 442 General "Strecker managed to extract his forces back across the river relatively intact." then "Based on the ferocity of their defense, the soldiers of the 44th and 384th ID were no longer either hysterical or panicky, if they ever had been".

Then from the Companion book, appendix 6M, a German account. "The artillery has problems getting out of positions...due to lack of horses" then "Fighting troops, supply columns, ambulances..., units of the Todt Organization, construction companies, horses, men and vehicles rolled in an unbroken stream across the bridge."

So my conclusion... some men panicked in the bridgehead, most did not. Some equipment/stores were lost, but the troops withdrew as a fighting force and would continue fighting effectively for over two months.

User avatar
Mr.No one
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 11:20
Location: Denmark

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#5

Post by Mr.No one » 13 Mar 2015, 06:37

Page 268 in Kehrig's Stalingrad: "Ihr (XI. AK) Rückzug hatte streckenweise das Bild einer geschlagenen Armee hinterlassen; als sie auf dem Ostufer des Don ankamen, war die Masse ihres Geräts und der schweren Waffen verloren."

Trans: "Their withdrawal had at places left an image of a defeated army; as they arrived to they eastern bank of the Don, most of their equipment and heavy weapons had been lost."

So maybe they actually did pretty bad and was lucky just to manage the withdrawal before the Soviet units succeeded in breaking through 76. I.D. and cut the corps off.

Cheers!
Believe in truth!

User avatar
Heimatschuss
Member
Posts: 2597
Joined: 22 May 2006, 23:50
Location: Deutschland

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#6

Post by Heimatschuss » 22 Mar 2015, 11:28

Hello,

the divisions the XI. Armee-Korps had to give up almost their entire supplies and heavy eqipment when they abandoned their positions on the river Don to retreat into the Stalingrad pocket. They simply lacked transportation.

In autumn 1942 the number of horses in the divisions had been reduced to the bare minimum because supplying them with horse fodder in the steppe was too difficult. The horses were gathered about 150 kilometers further SW in Morosovskya which is on the railroad line to Stalingrad. As a result the divisions were fit only for a static defence. As soon as they had to leave their positions after being outflanked their fire power was automatically reduced by a great scale because they couldn't take the artillery pieces, infantry guns and AT guns with them.

Horst Zank (2012, p.31) who was a battalion commander in 376. Infanterie-Division writes that each company had only five light russian panje carts available and the horses for the field kitchen.

References:

Zank, Horst
Stalingrad - Kessel und Gefangenschaft.
Licensed edition by Weltbild Verlag; Augsburg; 2012


Best regards
Torsten

User avatar
BDV
Member
Posts: 3704
Joined: 10 Apr 2009, 17:11

Re: XIth Infantry Corps at Don Bend

#7

Post by BDV » 31 Mar 2015, 20:37

The issue at hand, is that with the XIth infantry standing in place, they could give a better account of themselves with their weapons intact. Also, the 3rd Romanian could threaten breaking out towards them, which in turn imposes an unfavourable timeline on the Soviet infantry in the sector (they either storm the Romanians or at a minimum have to reinforce the ring all around them) - but worse, they have to ring the XIth, also. At some points, there is not enough Soviet infantry for all tasks.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

Post Reply

Return to “WW2 in Eastern Europe”