Composition of Soviet 28th and 29th Army in July/Aug 1941

[Kelvin]

In accordnace with Slaugherhouse, 28th Army comprised 30 and 33 Rifle Divisons but when in August 1941, she had 145 and 149th RD and 104 Tk divisision, exactly which units formed 28th Army initially ?

Also in the same book : 29th Army iniitally formed from five new Rifle Divisions, but I check OOB on Aug 1 1941, she only had 243, 252 RD and two cavalry divisions 50 & 53, so exactly what were her initial units ? five new RD or the data I quoted ?

[GregSingh]

Initially,

28th - 30,33 Rifle Corps and some sources say 69th Motorized Division
29th - 245, 252, 254, 256 Rifle Divisions.

Later in July, 69th Motorized Division seemed to join 29th Army; and 27th Mechanized Corps joined 28th Army.

Look here:
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10701.html
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10710.html
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10801.html

But initial composition of 29th Army is missing from those tables?

[Art]

Directive from Stavka to the Arlhangelsk Military District's commander, 27 June 1941

1. You are appointed to command the army which is formed in the Arkhangelsk MD...
2. The army includes 33 Rifle Corps (89, 120, 145 Rifle Divisions), 30 Rifle Corps (19, 149, 217 and 229 Rifle Divisions), 27 Motorized Corps.
....

Stavka's directive to the military council of the 28 Army, 28 June 1941:

1. The following units are included in the composition of the 28 Army:
a) 30 Rifle Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units and two artillery regiments, 19, 149, and 217 Rifle Divisions;
b) 33 Rifle Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units and two artillery regiments, 89, 120, 145, and 222 Rifle Divisions;
c) 27 Mechanized Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units, 9 and 53 Tank Divisions and 221 Motorized Division;

Stavka's directive, 12 July 1941:

1. in order to screen a direction to Bologoye a HQ of he 29 Army is to be formed.
Lieutenant general Maslennikov is appointed the 29 Army commander. Major general Sharapov is appointed the chief of staff.
The HQ of the 30 Rifle Corps is to be used to form the Army HQ.
The Army's staff from the end of 12.07.1941 will be at Bologoye.
2. The army is to include: four rifle divisions (256, 252, 254 and 245), one (69) motorized division, two corps artillery regiments (264 and 644), three anti-tank artillery regiments (171, 753, and 759), one fighter regiment, one bomber regiment and an IL-2 squadron.

[Kelvin]

Directive from Stavka to the Arlhangelsk Military District's commander, 27 June 1941

1. You are appointed to command the army which is formed in the Arkhangelsk MD...
2. The army includes 33 Rifle Corps (89, 120, 145 Rifle Divisions), 30 Rifle Corps (19, 149, 217 and 229 Rifle Divisions), 27 Motorized Corps.
....

Stavka's directive to the military council of the 28 Army, 28 June 1941:

1. The following units are included in the composition of the 28 Army:
a) 30 Rifle Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units and two artillery regiments, 19, 149, and 217 Rifle Divisions;
b) 33 Rifle Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units and two artillery regiments, 89, 120, 145, and 222 Rifle Divisions;
c) 27 Mechanized Corps consisting of the corps HQ and HQ units, 9 and 53 Tank Divisions and 221 Motorized Division;

Stavka's directive, 12 July 1941:

1. in order to screen a direction to Bologoye a HQ of he 29 Army is to be formed.
Lieutenant general Maslennikov is appointed the 29 Army commander. Major general Sharapov is appointed the chief of staff.
The HQ of the 30 Rifle Corps is to be used to form the Army HQ.
The Army's staff from the end of 12.07.1941 will be at Bologoye.
2. The army is to include: four rifle divisions (256, 252, 254 and 245), one (69) motorized division, two corps artillery regiments (264 and 644), three anti-tank artillery regiments (171, 753, and 759), one fighter regiment, one bomber regiment and an IL-2 squadron.

Hi, Art, thank so much for your information.

[Kelvin]

Initially,

28th - 30,33 Rifle Corps and some sources say 69th Motorized Division
29th - 245, 252, 254, 256 Rifle Divisions.

Later in July, 69th Motorized Division seemed to join 29th Army; and 27th Mechanized Corps joined 28th Army.

Look here:
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10701.html
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10710.html
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Boevo ... 10801.html

But initial composition of 29th Army is missing from those tables?

Hi, GregSingh, thank so much for your information.

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art and GregSingh, I would like to ask for below was correct initial compostion of Soviet 30th Army :

242, 250 and 251 Rifle Divisons

But Slaugherhouse book mentions 30th Army initially had four RD on hand, I am not sure which one is correct, If she had fourth, which division would be ?

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art and GregSingh,

I found that the core of 243-256 Rifle divisons were came from 1500 men from NKVD for each divisions, 500 command cadre and 1000 soldiers and NCO. (243, 244, 246,247,249,250,251,252,254,256 RD), performance was not particular good.

And Soviet OOB on June 22 1941, I know why 97 Rifle Divsion and 60 Mot and Tank Divisions were counted in field army but I don't why 31 divisions in Far East and Transbaibal were counted in servcie command, Japanese threat was also serious. Why don't counted in Field army.

And so called Reserve Armies, exactly only cadre on June 22 1941 ? like 19-24 Armies ?

And altogether Soviet had 303 Divisions on June 22 1941 in the whole country, even higher than cold war peak level. ( 198 x Rifle divisions, 61 x Tank and 31 x motorized infantry divisions and 13 x Cavlary divisions). Not 200 divisions that I see in other books.

[Art]

Hi, Art and GregSingh, I would like to ask for below was correct initial compostion of Soviet 30th Army :

242, 250 and 251 Rifle Divisons

From the 13 July's Stavka directive: 30 Army consists of 119, 242, 243 and 251 Rifle Divisions, 51 Tank Division, 43 Corps Artillery Regiment and 533 and 758 Anti-Tank Artillery Regiments. Army HQ is formed from the 52 Rifle Corps HQ.

[Kelvin]

HI, Art, thank for your information.

[Art]

I found that the core of 243-256 Rifle divisons were came from 1500 men from NKVD for each divisions, 500 command cadre and 1000 soldiers and NCO. (243, 244, 246,247,249,250,251,252,254,256 RD), performance was not particular good.

And Soviet OOB on June 22 1941, I know why 97 Rifle Divsion and 60 Mot and Tank Divisions were counted in field army but I don't why 31 divisions in Far East and Transbaibal were counted in servcie command, Japanese threat was also serious. Why don't counted in Field army.

And so called Reserve Armies, exactly only cadre on June 22 1941 ? like 19-24 Armies ?

I don't quite understand what the question is. You can find a complete OOB from 22.06.41 for example here:
http://www.niehorster.org/012_ussr/41_o ... ka_41.html
Divisions with numbers from 241 and on were formed after the war start, numbers smaller and equal to 240 were pre-war divisions.

[Kelvin]

HI,Art, I don't what differnce between Field army and servcie command and non in field unit. e.g. the units that built 35th, 36th, 44th, 45th, 46th and 47th Armies were already exist on June 22 like 77th and 63th Mountain Rifle Divisions, and those were under service command catelogue. Are they are not considered as field army ?

On the other hand, 243-268 Rifle divisions formed by NKVD were purely new divisions after war broke out.

And I see some sources that Soviet each division had a invisible divsion, each regiment, battalion, company, platoon and squad had two assistant commanders, one for daily work for their own subunit and another one are for estalishment of new division when war began.

[Art]

"Operational army" was defined as forces on the western frontier (Leningrad, Baltic, West, Kiev and Odessa military districts. Accordingly forces of other districts are not operational army.

And I see some sources that Soviet each division had a invisible divsion, each regiment, battalion, company, platoon and squad had two assistant commanders, one for daily work for their own subunit and another one are for estalishment of new division when war began.

These are just fantasies, nothing similar in reality.

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art, thank for your answer.