Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

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DrG
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Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#1

Post by DrG » 21 Jul 2016, 00:05

In the book "Invasori, non vittime. La Campagna italiana di Russia 1941-1943" by Thomas Schlemmer, Italian edition of "Die Italiener an der Ostfront 1942/43. Dokumente zu Mussolinis Krieg gegen die Sowjetunion", is reported the map attached to this message, which shows the position of the Italian 8th Army (ARMIR) on the Russian front in November 1942. As explained in page 47 of the book, the "rear area" ("zona arretrata", I don't know which was the exact definition in the German original) of the ARMIR is the dotted zone shown on the map, comprising "a total of 21 districts with 265 cities and municipalities, inhabited by 476,000 people".
I assume that also the Hungarian and Rumanian armies in Russia had a "rear area", but I have never seen a map of the districts under their occupation. Can anybody help me, please?
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Italian 8th Army occupation zone in Russia, Nov. 1942

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#2

Post by Leo Niehorster » 23 Jul 2016, 10:47

Hope this helps:
Sec-map.gif
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DrG
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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#3

Post by DrG » 23 Jul 2016, 17:48

Thank you for the map, but it is somewhat different from what I am looking for. This map, in fact, represents generically the Russian areas where Hungarian units operated, not the Soviet districts that were placed under Hungarian military administration. In other words, I am looking for an administrative map, not a strictly operational one (for example, an army can operate in a certain area without having any administrative power upon it, like the Bulgarian army fighting along with the Soviets in the Balkans in 1944-45).

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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#4

Post by Leo Niehorster » 23 Jul 2016, 22:02

I don't think the Hungarian units administered the areas they were stationed in, and that rather the German military government units (Feldkommandanturen, Ortskommandanturen, etc.) of the German army line-of-communications and armed forces commands they were were assigned to did. For example, the Hungarian security units were under operational control
  06.10.41 – 09.02.42 Befh. HG Süd
  09.02.42 – 09.07.42 split between Befh. HG Süd and WB Ukraine
  09.07.42 – 09.02.43 split between Befh. HG B and WB Ukraine
and so on.

WB Ukraine was the military commander in the Reichskommissariat Ukraine, which provided "muscle" over and above the civilian administration's police forces.
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DrG
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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#5

Post by DrG » 24 Jul 2016, 03:34

Interesting information, thank you. By the way, the districts that, according to Schlemmer's map, were under Italian occupation seem to be by far too large for the forces available for rear-area control by the Italian 8th Army (as far as I know, pratically only the Vicenza division).
Can you confirm that the Italian Army had such a large occupation zone, or is it a mistake of my source, please?

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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#6

Post by Leo Niehorster » 24 Jul 2016, 12:59

Sorry, neither the Rumanian nor the Italian occupation forces are my field of knowledge.
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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#7

Post by Art » 24 Jul 2016, 22:14

As I understand the usual custom was that each German Army command was assigned a certain rear area limited by a boundary with the Army group and boundaries with neighbor armies:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCck ... rmeegebiet
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kor%C3%BCck
It would be logical to have the same arrangement for allied armies although some administrative details could be different somewhat.
You can check the exact areas assigned to individual army commands on German situation maps, for example here:
http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/wwii_new_006.htm

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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#8

Post by Leo Niehorster » 25 Jul 2016, 09:52

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/wwii_new_006.htm
What a lovely site. Thanks for the link! :thumbsup:
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Re: Hungarian and Rumanian occupation zones in USSR?

#9

Post by Jeff Leach » 25 Jul 2016, 10:01

The Romanians controlled and administered a part of the Ukraine called Transnistria (pretty much the area between the Prut and Lower Bug Rivers). This is the only area in the conquered part Soviet Union that was outside German control. The subject of the German and Romanian occupied part of the Soviet Union has been extensively cover in German literature. For information on Transnistria you have 'Varianten des Terrors' by Herwig Baum, which covers the differences in the German and Romanian administration of the occupied parts of the Soviet Union, 'Blutiger Juli' by Simon Geissbühler, which is about Romanians killing of Jews in July 1941. There is also 'Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord' by Andrej Angrick, which is about Einsatzgruppe D's operations in the Ukraine. Besides these there are at least 4-5 more books cover the operations in the Wehrmacht administered areas behind the frontlines. Italian, Slovakian, Hungarian and Romanian military forces assisted both in the Wehrmacht and Civilian administered areas of the Soviet Union.
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