Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
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Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Dear all,
I am currently trying to fill in the last remaining gaps in the research of the Nachtjagd operations on the Eastern Front. For this purpose, I would very much like to get information on Soviet air force night (bomber) operations on the Eastern Front during the period of July-October 1943. I have documented many German night fighter claims for Soviet aircraft shot down during these months, for which I have not yet been able to establish the matching Soviet aircraft losses. To illustrate this, I can give the details of German Nachtjagd claims on three nights:
1-2 August 1943
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 55 Stab IV./NJG5 R-5 nr. Alshanitsa (Sumatra I): 1.800 m. 21.40
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 56 Stab IV./NJG5 PS-84 nr. Lyubegoshch‘ (Sumatra I): 2.700 m. 21.47
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 57 Stab IV./NJG5 R-5 nr. Khotnya (Sumatra I): 2.600 m. 23.01
Fw. Georg Bargel: 2 11./NJG5 DB-3 S. Jelenowka, 16 km. SE Stalino: 3.800 m. 23.21
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 16 10./NJG5 R-5 10 km NE Rognedino (Himmelbett): 500 m. 23.30
31 August-1 September 1943
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 29 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 2.900 m. 21.01
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 30 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 3.000 m. 22.21
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 31 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr Griwa, 80 km WSW Rshev: 2.600 m. 22.37
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 32 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C 10 km NE Podborok, ENE Roslavl: 2.300 m. 23.00
12-13 October 1943
Oblt. Hans von Hagenow: 2 2./NJG100 DB-3 Kirovograd, SE Alexandrovka: 2.000 m. 17.53
Oblt. Adolf Kaiser: 7 1./NJG100 DB-3 E. Dabskovka (Sumatra 1): 2.700 m. 17.59
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 30 1./NJG100 DB-3F Ujiki (Sumatra 1): 2.700 m. 18.38
Fw. Helmut Konter: 1 3./NJG100 Mitchell E. Orscha: 5.700 m. 18.39
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 31 1./NJG100 DB-3F 30 km E. Stary-Bychow airfield (Sumatra 1): 2.800 m. 18.56
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 32 1./NJG100 B-25 30 km E. Stary-Bychow airfield (Sumatra 1): 2.000 m. 20.48
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 45 Stab I./NJG100 U-2 10 km SE Orscha airfield: 2.000 m. 22.43
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 46 Stab I./NJG100 DB-3 10 km SE Babinowitschi: 2.000 m. 01.07
Who could help me fill in the basic details of the Soviet night (bombing) operations on a number of nights during July-October 1943, and help with the matching of the Soviet aircraft losses to the German claims?
Cheers and thanks for any help!
Theo
I am currently trying to fill in the last remaining gaps in the research of the Nachtjagd operations on the Eastern Front. For this purpose, I would very much like to get information on Soviet air force night (bomber) operations on the Eastern Front during the period of July-October 1943. I have documented many German night fighter claims for Soviet aircraft shot down during these months, for which I have not yet been able to establish the matching Soviet aircraft losses. To illustrate this, I can give the details of German Nachtjagd claims on three nights:
1-2 August 1943
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 55 Stab IV./NJG5 R-5 nr. Alshanitsa (Sumatra I): 1.800 m. 21.40
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 56 Stab IV./NJG5 PS-84 nr. Lyubegoshch‘ (Sumatra I): 2.700 m. 21.47
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 57 Stab IV./NJG5 R-5 nr. Khotnya (Sumatra I): 2.600 m. 23.01
Fw. Georg Bargel: 2 11./NJG5 DB-3 S. Jelenowka, 16 km. SE Stalino: 3.800 m. 23.21
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 16 10./NJG5 R-5 10 km NE Rognedino (Himmelbett): 500 m. 23.30
31 August-1 September 1943
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 29 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 2.900 m. 21.01
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 30 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 3.000 m. 22.21
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 31 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr Griwa, 80 km WSW Rshev: 2.600 m. 22.37
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 32 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C 10 km NE Podborok, ENE Roslavl: 2.300 m. 23.00
12-13 October 1943
Oblt. Hans von Hagenow: 2 2./NJG100 DB-3 Kirovograd, SE Alexandrovka: 2.000 m. 17.53
Oblt. Adolf Kaiser: 7 1./NJG100 DB-3 E. Dabskovka (Sumatra 1): 2.700 m. 17.59
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 30 1./NJG100 DB-3F Ujiki (Sumatra 1): 2.700 m. 18.38
Fw. Helmut Konter: 1 3./NJG100 Mitchell E. Orscha: 5.700 m. 18.39
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 31 1./NJG100 DB-3F 30 km E. Stary-Bychow airfield (Sumatra 1): 2.800 m. 18.56
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 32 1./NJG100 B-25 30 km E. Stary-Bychow airfield (Sumatra 1): 2.000 m. 20.48
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 45 Stab I./NJG100 U-2 10 km SE Orscha airfield: 2.000 m. 22.43
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 46 Stab I./NJG100 DB-3 10 km SE Babinowitschi: 2.000 m. 01.07
Who could help me fill in the basic details of the Soviet night (bombing) operations on a number of nights during July-October 1943, and help with the matching of the Soviet aircraft losses to the German claims?
Cheers and thanks for any help!
Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Looking at 1-2 August 1943, those four small villages:
Alshanitsa / Olshanitsa - Альшаница / Ольшаница
Khotnya - Хотня
Lyubegoshch - Любегощь
Rognedino - Рогнедино
seem to be north of Bryansk in the area of operation of 1st Air Army supporting operations of Soviet Western Front.
But there is still a possibility that planes from 15th Air Army with its 284th and 313th Night Bomber divisions were involved (from Bryansk Front).
For the whole month of August, 15th Air Army reported loss of 32 night bombers.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=259866776
For 31 August-1 September 1943, Belik was in the area of 1st Air Army, specifically 213th Night Bomber division.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=101033943 (a map)
One more thing. Are you sure lost Soviet planes were actually night bombers?
Report from 15th Air Army mentions frequent resupply night missions of partisan groups.
Perhaps German fighters shot some of those Soviet planes?
Alshanitsa / Olshanitsa - Альшаница / Ольшаница
Khotnya - Хотня
Lyubegoshch - Любегощь
Rognedino - Рогнедино
seem to be north of Bryansk in the area of operation of 1st Air Army supporting operations of Soviet Western Front.
But there is still a possibility that planes from 15th Air Army with its 284th and 313th Night Bomber divisions were involved (from Bryansk Front).
For the whole month of August, 15th Air Army reported loss of 32 night bombers.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=259866776
For 31 August-1 September 1943, Belik was in the area of 1st Air Army, specifically 213th Night Bomber division.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=101033943 (a map)
One more thing. Are you sure lost Soviet planes were actually night bombers?
Report from 15th Air Army mentions frequent resupply night missions of partisan groups.
Perhaps German fighters shot some of those Soviet planes?
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Thanks Greg for your reply -much appreciated! And you're right, the German night fighters not only combated the Soviet night bombers, but also the U-2 and R-5 biplanes engaged in resupply missions of partisan groups. It would be great if the identities of these aircraft that were shot down by the Nachtjäger could be established!
Cheers, Theo
Cheers, Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
From war diary of the 4 Guards Bomber Air Corps ADD:Theo Boiten wrote: 31 August-1 September 1943
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 29 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 2.900 m. 21.01
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 30 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr. Belik, 40 km N. Roslavl: 3.000 m. 22.21
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 31 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C nr Griwa, 80 km WSW Rshev: 2.600 m. 22.37
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 32 Stab I./NJG100 B-25 C 10 km NE Podborok, ENE Roslavl: 2.300 m. 23.00
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/jbd/133166367/
the following b-25 airplanes were lost on the night 31.8/1.9.43
1. B-25 No.679 from 13 Guards Bomber Regiment didn't return from a bombing mission to the Borovskoye airfield. Crew members:
commander - guards captain Ustinov
pilot - guards junior lieutenant Sidlak
navigator - g. senior lieutenant Markushevich
radio operator - g. starshina Netuzhilov
gunner - g. starshina Sukotskiy
2. B-25 No.237 from 13 Guards Bomber Regiment didn't return from a bombing mission to the Borovskoye airfield. Crew members:
commander - g. junior lieutenant Chirkov
pilot - g. junior lieutenant Tsoglin
navigator - junior lieutenant Bulyga
radio operator - g. senior sergeant Romanov
gunner - g. junior sergeant Borisov
3. B-25 No. 648 from 15 Guards Bomber Regiment - photoed results of bombing of the Borovskoye airfield, didn't return from mission. Crew members:
commander - g. senior lieutenant Dedkov
pilot - g. junior lieutenant Shirshov
navigotor - g. senior lieutenant Krasavin
radio operator - g. starshina Vagin
gunner - g. sergeant Frolov
4. B-25 No. 676 from 22 Guards Bomber Regiment didn't return from a bombing mission to the Pochinok rail station. Crew memebers:
commander - g. captain Gaivoronskiy
pilot - junior lieutenant Lavronenko
squadron navigator - g. captain Yeliseev
airplane navigator - g. senior sergeant Korobov
radio operator - g. starshina Kostylev
gunner - g. private Vladimirov
Borovskoe airfield was about 45 km north-north-east of Roslavl and Pochinok station is right near the airfield. The only suspect detail is a claim in the area 80 km WSW Rzhev which is too far from Borovskoye/Pochinok.
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Hello Art,
Excellent! Many thanks for sharing these details. And thanks too for pointing out a possible suspect 3rd claim by Schoenert on this particular night. I have checked the location of the 3rd claim and this should read 'near Desnogorsk, NE of Roslavl', which fits in well with the B-25 losses sustained during the 31.8-1.9.43 raid.
Cheers and have a good weekend, Theo
Excellent! Many thanks for sharing these details. And thanks too for pointing out a possible suspect 3rd claim by Schoenert on this particular night. I have checked the location of the 3rd claim and this should read 'near Desnogorsk, NE of Roslavl', which fits in well with the B-25 losses sustained during the 31.8-1.9.43 raid.
Cheers and have a good weekend, Theo
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
.. one further question regarding the Borovskoye raid of 31.8.-1.9.43; did Schoenert in fact destroy all of the four Mitchells that failed to return, or were there any further Soviet aircraft losses during this raid?
Best regards,Theo
Best regards,Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Only those four losses on that night. Battle losses were not that frequent - 4 Gu.BAC lost 9 planes in September 1943, so you can say quite safely that those four airplanes were the same claimed by Schoenert.
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Many thanks for confirming these details!
Cheers, Theo
Cheers, Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
From a report on operations of 4 Guards Bomber Corps (available down the link posted above) on the night 12/13 October B-25 No. 521 from the 15 Guards Bomber Regiment didn't return from a mission on dropping supplies to partisan groups south-east of Kobrin. The airplane was on its way back when it radioed at 22.20 Moscow time that it flew above the Berezina River. No further messages were received, no other info on this airplane was known. Crew members:Theo Boiten wrote:Hptm. Alois Lechner: 32 1./NJG100 B-25 30 km E. Stary-Bychow airfield (Sumatra 1): 2.000 m. 20.48
commander - guards lieutenant Kirillov
pilot - junior lieutenant Arbuzov
navigator - guards senior lieutenant Sokolovskiy
radio operator - guards senior sergeant Kruzhilniy
gunner - guards senior sergeant Malkov
Looks like a probable confirmation but not a certain one.
No other losses recorded on this day. 4 Gu. BAC was the only unit that used B-25, form what I understand.
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
From the book Kursk the Air Battle July 1943 by Christer Bergstrom
A small bit of information about Night Bombers in the Kursk area on July 4 1943
16 VA had 76 Night Bombers - 74 serviceable
2 VA had 49 Night Bombers - 34 serviceable
17 VA had 61 Night Bombers - 60 serviceable
So these three Air Armies had 186 Night Bombers in total, with 168 serviceable and 18 not serviceable.
I hope this helps.
A small bit of information about Night Bombers in the Kursk area on July 4 1943
16 VA had 76 Night Bombers - 74 serviceable
2 VA had 49 Night Bombers - 34 serviceable
17 VA had 61 Night Bombers - 60 serviceable
So these three Air Armies had 186 Night Bombers in total, with 168 serviceable and 18 not serviceable.
I hope this helps.
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Many thanks Gentlemen for these additional details, which are most helpful!
Best regards, Theo
Best regards, Theo
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Hi Dann Falk,
May I ask you if the book by Christer Bergstrom, Kursk The Air Battle July 1943 give any details about Soviet night operations & German night fighter operations during the Battle of Kursk in July 1943?
Cheers and thanks, Theo
May I ask you if the book by Christer Bergstrom, Kursk The Air Battle July 1943 give any details about Soviet night operations & German night fighter operations during the Battle of Kursk in July 1943?
Cheers and thanks, Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Greetings Theo,
I did a quick review and no specific details about Night Bomber/Fighter operations were listed. The book is focused on Day by Day operations, by both sides, during the daytime.
I did a quick review and no specific details about Night Bomber/Fighter operations were listed. The book is focused on Day by Day operations, by both sides, during the daytime.
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Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Thanks for checking Dann, much appreciated. Cheers, Theo
Re: Red Air Force night (bombing) operations and losses July-October 1943?
Hello Theo
there is some info on night operations in the Dmitriy B. Khazanov’s Air War Over Kursk (2010). Especially Chapter 6 War in the night sky pp. 90-95. The main Soviet night bomber force, the ADD, had at the beginning of July 1943 740 (523 serviceable) bombers and 697 crews of which 628 were trained for night ops. There is also info on the numbers of night ops flown per night by the ADD and the Air Armies over certain periods in July and August 1943 in Appendices. ADD was the Soviet equivalent for the Bomber Command and the B-25s, Il-4s Li-2 bombers and TB-7s/Pe-8s belonged to it.
there is some info on night operations in the Dmitriy B. Khazanov’s Air War Over Kursk (2010). Especially Chapter 6 War in the night sky pp. 90-95. The main Soviet night bomber force, the ADD, had at the beginning of July 1943 740 (523 serviceable) bombers and 697 crews of which 628 were trained for night ops. There is also info on the numbers of night ops flown per night by the ADD and the Air Armies over certain periods in July and August 1943 in Appendices. ADD was the Soviet equivalent for the Bomber Command and the B-25s, Il-4s Li-2 bombers and TB-7s/Pe-8s belonged to it.