Battle for Belgrade (1944 X)

[Serbian boy]

I need defenders order of battle.

[asiaticus]

I did some research a while back on the War in that area. Here is what I came up with from various sources now lost in a disc crash.

Armeeabteilung Serbien (Armee Group F) 8-10/44
- Army HQ (Belgrade)
- Korpsgruppe Schneckenburger
- Korpsgruppe Müller
- 1st Serbian Assault Corps
- Serbian Volunteer Corps
- Russian Defence Corps

- Korpsgruppe Schneckenburger (South-East Command ) 8-10/44
-- General Schneckenburger
-- 117th Jäger Division 10/44
-- zbV 800 Lehr-Division "Brandenburg" 8/44
-- "Brandenburg" Panzergrenadier Division 9/44
-- 1st Mountain Division 9-10/44
-- 118th Jäger Division 10/44
-- 20th Air Defence Division 8-10/44
-- Russian Defence Corps 8-10/44
-- 191st Assault Gun Brigade 8-10/44
-- 92nd Motorized Infantry Brigade 8-9/44
-- Serbian Volunteer Corps 9-10/44
-- 3 x Municipal State Guard Battalions 8-10/44
-- 440th Fortress Brigade 10/44
-- "Fortress Belgrade" Regiment 10/44
-- 18th SS Police Mountain Regiment 10/44
-- 1st Police Regiment 10/44
-- 2nd Police Regiment 10/44
-- 3rd Police Regiment 10/44
-- 5th Motorized Police Regiment 10/44
-- 9th Police Regiment 10/44
-- Gendermaire Replacement Regiment 10/44
-- 146th Replacement Regiment 10/44
-- Replacement Battalion, 7th SS Division 10/44
-- 28th Security Battalion (Landesschützen) 10/44
-- 12th Special Panzer Company (PzKpfW 35-R 731(f)) 10/44
-- I/202nd Beutepanzer Rgt (BeutePz M15/42) 10/44


- Korpsgruppe Müller 10-11/44
-- Brandenburg Panzergrenadier Division 10/44
-- 1st Mountain Division 10/44
-- 7th SS Mountain Division "Prinz Eugen" 11/44
-- 104th Jäger Division 11/44
-- 92nd Motorized Infantry Brigade 10/44
-- 104th Jäger Division 11/44
-- Sturm-Regmiment "Rhodos" 10/44
-- 54th Jäger Regiment 10/44
-- 3rd Police Regiment 10/44
-- 116th Reconnaissance Battalion 10/44
-- 44th Anti-tank Battalion 10/44
-- 738th Turkmenistan Battalion 10/44
-- 88mm AA Battalion, 4th SS Police Division 10/44

- 1st Serbian Assault Corps (Chetniks) 08/44 - 1/45
-- 1st Assault Division
-- 2nd Assault Division
-- 3rd Frontier Guard Division


- Serbian Volunteer Corps SDK (Serbs) 8/44- 5/45
-- SDK Armored Car Battalion 8-10/44
-- SDK Cavalry Squadron
--1st. Serbian Infantry Regiment
-- 2nd. Serbian Infantry Regiment
-- 3rd. Serbian Infantry Regiment
-- 4th. Serbian Infantry Regiment
-- 5th. Serbian Infantry Regiment

- Russian Defence Corps (Russisches Schutzkorps) 8/44-5/45
-- 1st Schutz Regiment
-- 2nd Schutz Regiment
-- 3rd Schutz Regiment
-- 4th Schutz Regiment 8-10/44
-- 5th Schutz Regiment 8-10/44

Korpsgruppe Schneckenburger was defending the city.

There are maps of the Belgrade battles here:
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps ... tm#Balkans

[Serbian boy]

Thanks!

[Benoit Douville]

How about the Battle of Belgrade of 1944, does somebody have some interesting info concerning that Battle. Was it tough to "liberated" the city?

Regards

[G. Trifkovic]

Mr. Douville,

there are a lot of interesting stories. One of them is the rumour about the endless tunnels under the old part of Belgrade,as it was the site of the Roman,Byzantine,Serbian,Turkish and Austrian fortress,with each owner adding something new. Now,only rumours on the size and length of these underground corridors exist,but here I'll relate a story told to me by my friend: His grandmother was with the partisans advancing into the city. According to her,a partisan sympathiser from the city took them into tunnels at Zvezdara suburb and they emerged at Tasmajdan (several kilometers!),at the very heart of the city,thus bypassing the german strongpoints.Maybe some fellow member from Serbia could add more.

Cheers,

Gaius

[Benoit Douville]

Gauis,

That's pretty interesting indeed! I didn't know the existence of such tunnels, do you have or other member picture of those tunnels? How about the Battle itself for the liberation of the city in october 1944, in which the Yugoslav Communist leader Josip Broz Tito aided by the Red Army took over the city. Was it tough against the Germans? I read that the Red Army had about 35 000 casualties, is this accurate?

Regards

[G. Trifkovic]

Number of 35,000 is a gross exageration,I believe. IIRC I always came across the figure of no more than 3,000 Soviet casaulties. After all,the fighting in the city itself lasted only two days (18-20.X). German losses are closer to the figure you gave-they were really badly licked there. 1.GebirgsDiv alone suffered 5,000 casaulties (according to Kaltenegger,Austrian historian of the division).

Cheers,

Gaius

[Benoit Douville]

Gauis,

5 000 casualties for the 1 Gebirgs Division during the Battle of Belgrade in 1944??? that seems pretty high too. I will take your 3 000 casulaties for the Red Army but usually the Red Army always had more casualties than the Germans even in the last years of the War on the Eastern Front...

Regards

[Oleg Grigoryev]

belongs to "that (admittedly off-topic) experiment"

[Qvist]

The Red Army losses during the operation were by all accounts very low. Oleg, your figure is from Krivosheev, right? I'd take that loss figure for 1.Gbd with a very large pinch of salt. The whole of OB Südost reported 9,944 casualties between 10 October and 10 November (with another 4,000 or so between 20 September and 10 October), and since no more than roughly another 6,000 were reprted for the rest of november, it does not seem likely that there were very considerable losses that were reported with delay. Source: BA-MA RH/1355.

cheers

[Oleg Grigoryev]

belongs to "that (admittedly off-topic) experiment"

[G. Trifkovic]

I stand corrected,Mr.Grigoryev and Mr.Quist. Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

[Mark V.]

Hello Qvist -

The Red Army losses during the operation were by all accounts very low. Oleg, your figure is from Krivosheev, right? I'd take that loss figure for 1.Gbd with a very large pinch of salt. The whole of OB Südost reported 9,944 casualties between 10 October and 10 November (with another 4,000 or so between 20 September and 10 October), and since no more than roughly another 6,000 were reprted for the rest of november, it does not seem likely that there were very considerable losses that were reported with delay. Source: BA-MA RH/1355.

cheers

Having a general interest in this area though I never really studied the subject in detail I must say I'm some what surprised by these numbers. Reading various books I had the impression the German units used in the defense of Serbia and at the same time screening the HG E retreat route really took a heavy beating. As far as I can see these figures would to some extent contradict this.

There're several well documented books on these battles, especially noteworthy is Karl Hnilicka's Das Ende auf dem Balkan or a book by the same title from Erich Schmidt Richberg. Unfortunately none of them have the casualty numbers for individual units but do describe them as high.

7.SS Prinz Eugen reported to Korps Müller at the end of October 1944 the following figures for the period 1.-28.10.1944: 1421 KIA + 3679 WIA + 2610 MIA (Kumm: Vorwärts Prinz Eugen, p.312), which were especially high on 15.10.1944.

For the other units I couldn't find anything similar but the above mentioned sources clearly indicate that 7.SS was no exception. As mentioned by gaius Kaltenegger's divisional history on 1.Geb.Div. claims the total for this division were around 5,000 as does Lanz's 1.Geb.Div. history. Lanz and Hnilicka also mention a report sent by the division's acting commander to OBSO in which he reported the division's strength at the end of October at 12,000 men. While Ziemke (Defeat in the East, p.377) also has the same number he also mentions a later entry in OBSO KTB which shows that the actual number was substantially smaller.

The case was similar with 11.Lw.Feld.Div., 181.Inf., 22.Inf.Div and some units fighting against the Yugoslav partisans in Dalmatia.

So what would be the reason for the discrepancies? Late reporting?

Thanks

[Mark V.]

Yugoslav forces (1st Army Group) suffered roughly 3,000 dead and 4,000 wounded in the Belgrade operation.

[G. Trifkovic]

Another piece of interesting info concerning the maze of tunnels under Belgrade:during the battle,fierce combat was taking place around the today`s "ŽTP" building on the corner of Nemanja and Sarajevo street.Once the shooting stopped,attackers moved in only to find it empty.It turned out that the defenders left it using the secret tunnel which led to the Main railway station,from where they retreated further west:

http://www.novosti.co.yu/vest.php?vest= ... ka=Feljton (only in Serbian)

Cheers,

Gaius