Battle of Lenino 1943

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Yuri
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#61

Post by Yuri » 31 May 2007, 11:37

TSAMO
f. 388 (33A), op. 8712, d. 405, l. 132
Top secret a copy # 1
Proceeding # 00854
16/10/1943.

TO THE CHIEF OF THE OPERATIONS SECTION
STAFF OF THE WESTERN FRONT

THE REPORT
-------------------------------------------------------
About losses of staff and an equipment for the period
with 12 for 15.10.1943 years

1 PID – staff: it is killed – 502, it is wounded – 1680 persons, was missing 663, for other reasons 23; total 2868.
Including:
1 IR – it is killed – 242, it is wounded 796, was missing 188; total 1226.
2 IR – it is killed 135, it is wounded 529, was missing 394; total 1058.
3 IR – it is killed 37, it is wounded 202, was missing 55, for other reasons 23; total 367.
Other units: it is killed 38, it is wounded 153, was missing 26; total 217.


Losses in horses structure:
It is killed 208, was missing 2, it is wounded 76; total 286.

Equipment:
Knock out 9 tanks /middle/, were missing 5 tanks /middle/, guns of 45 mm–4, 76 mm – 1, mortars – 17, machine guns – 52, AT Rifle – 63, SVT and automatic devices 475, rifles – 217, two-wheeled carts – 10, hours vehicles – 10.
….
DEPUTY CHIEF OPERATIONS SECTION OF THE STAFF of 33-rd ARMY
LIEUTENANT COLONEL /GRITSMAN/

It is printed in 2 copies
m.v.

It is transferred to a staff of the Western Front
16/10/43
Has accepted Baranov
The coded copy is destroyed.
captain [the signature not clear – Yuri]

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Yuri
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#62

Post by Yuri » 31 May 2007, 14:10

At the end of day 12/10/143 the commander 1 PID general - major Berling and the chief of a staff colonel Logodzinsky have sent to a staff of 33-rd army two the battle reports.
One battle report is made at 19 o'clock 00 minutes 12/10/43, and the second battle report is made in half an hour – 19 o'clock 30 minutes.
The contents of these documents almost identically, however, is some nuances.
Therefore I give both documents.
It is remarkable, that both documents hand-written.

1-th Document

TSAMO
f. 388 (33A), op. 8712, d. 325, l. 4, 4 revers, 5, 5 revers
Entering # 9983
12/10/1943

1 PID the Battle report
HQ 1P on 19.00 12/10/43

1 PID has seized a first line of defense of the opponent and has reached a boundary:
the western outskirt POLZUKHI, separate tree of 700 meters to the west TREGUBOVO, east outskirt TREGUBOVO.

2 IR – the boundary the western outskirt POLZUKHI, breakage [end] of road of 1 kms southwest POLZUKHI has reached.
It is stopped by fire of the opponent from area PUNITSCHE and to the east PUNITSCHE.
Ammunition come to an end.
Has had significant losses which are specified.

1 IR – the boundary (extremely) breakage [end] of a way of 1 km to the west from POLZUKHI, east outskirt TREGUBOVO has reached.
It is stopped by strong fire of the opponent from areas: TREGUBOVO and height to the west.
Ammunition come to an end.
Has the big losses which are found out.

3 IR – moves in the second echelon; one battalion has a task to replace 1 IR and two battalions it will be concentrated in area MOISEEVO
Ammunition 0,6 units of fire
Losses insignificant.

Tank regiment – two companys on east slopes of the height 215.5, the first a company at ferry LENINO. The second and third company have got stuck SYSOEVO.
To morning tanks to morning will be on the western coast. [So in the document – Yuri]
Losses – 2 tanks were undermined on mines, 1 put out of action.

It is seized 60 captured which are directed in NIKOLENKI.
The sharp need(requirement) for gasoline and ammunition is felt.

[the Berling's signature – Yuri]
[the Logodzinsky's signature – Yuri]
2-th Document

TSAMO
f. 388 (33A), op. 8712, d. 325, l. 8, 8 revers
Entering # 10021
13.10.1943

The battle report #
HQ 1 IDP 12/10/43
19.30 Map 50 000 – 41
.
The division on 19.00 12/10/43 has seized a first line of defense of the opponent and has reached(achieved) a boundary:
the western outskirt POLZUKHI, separate tree of 700 meters to the west TREGUBOVO, east outskirt TREGUBOVO.

1. 2 IR of 1 km southwest POLZUKHI has reached on a boundary the western outskirt POLZUKHI, breakage [end] of field road.
It is stopped by fire from area PUNITSCHE of height to the east PUNITSCHE.
Ammunition come to an end.
In regiment has had significant losses which are specified.

2. 1 IR (exclude) breakage [end] of road of 1 km southwest POLZUKHI, east outskirt TREGUBOVO has left on a boundary.
It is stopped by strong fire of the opponent from area TREGUBOVO and height to the west.
Regiment has no ammunition.
Regiment has the big losses which are found out.

3. 3 IR, moving to the second echelon, one battalion replaces – 1 IR, and to two it is focused in area MOISEEVO.
Ammunition about 0,6 units of fire.
Losses insignificant.

4. 1 Tank Regiment – two companys on east slopes of height 215.5 – the first, at a ferry m. LININO - the second. The third company has got stuck on ferries area SYSOEVO.
To morning 13.10.43 will be in It is ready.
Losses – put out of action 2 tanks, it is damaged – 1 tank.

5. It is seized captured about 60 the person of wars, are directed in NIKOLENKA.

6. The division has no some gasoline for motor transport, cannot bring up an ammunition, tighten the motorized units, an ammunition are for 70 km.

7. KP – at a plug of a ravine of 1 km to north PUZINKI
NP – on an old place.

8. Has decided: to make a regrouping, having replaced units 1 IR – battalions 3 IR from the second echelon – for continuation of approach.

The commander 1 IDP
the general - major [the Berlin's signature - Yuri]
The chief of a staff
the colonel [ the Logodzinsky signature - Yuri]


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Yuri
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#63

Post by Yuri » 31 May 2007, 17:22

The commander 33-rd Army general - colonel GORDOV has ordered to execute all-round (total) checking of a status of everyone company of 1-st Polish Infantry Division of a name of T. Kostjushko.
During the period with 15 on 19/10 such checking has been executed – everyone has been checked up a company of each unit 1 PID.
Was checked work of all departments and branches of a staff of a formation
In an archival folder there are reports which reflect a status of everyone companys and a staff of a formation.

I have no time to give the information on everyone a company is will take away a lot of time.
Therefore I give quotations from documents with shared data on a division.


TSAMO
f. 388, op. 8712, d. 325, l. 45
To Entering # 10307
21/10/1943

The form # 8

THE REPORT
about presence personal structure and arms in 1-st PID T. KOSTJUSHKO’s name.

I. Staff

[ Off / NCOs / Man / Total persons – Yuri ]
895/2031 / 6559 / 9285

II. Arms
[ presence / losses-Yuri ]
1. In total rifles of all types 5042 / 1311
2. PPD and PPSh 1942 / 774
3. Machine guns:
- LMGs 195 / 282
- HMGs 80 / 82
- AA MGs – /–
6. Mortars:
- 120 mm 24 /–
- 82 mm 82 / 2
- 50 mm 26 / 32
7. Artillery arms
- howitzers of 122 mm 12 / -
- guns of 76 mm DA 24 / -
- guns of 76 mm RA 10 / 2
- guns of 45 mm 45 / 1
- AT Rifle 218 / 113
8. Motor vehicles of all types 261 / -
9. Tanks of all kinds 23 / –
10. Mortars RS - /-
11. Anti-aircraft guns - /-
12. Tractors - /-

The chief of a staff of 1-st PID
colonel LOGOSZINSKY [ Logodzinsky's signature – Yuri ]

The chief 1-st department 1 PID
major KUNDEREVICH [ Kunderevich's signature – Yuri ]
Apparently from above-stated report - 5 tanks which earlier have disappeared without a message (about it a staff of a formation informed 14/10) nevertheless have been found.


TSAMO
f. 388, op. 8712, d. 325, l. 44
To Entering # 10307
21/10/19434

The form # 11

THE REPORT
About captured and the trophies seized at the opponent by 1-st Polish infantry division of a name of T. KOSTJUSHKO
From October, 10 till October, 19, 1943

[ captured both trophies / killed and the destroyed equipment - Yuri ]

I. Persons

1. Generals – /–
2. Staffs-officers – /-
3. Ober-officers 3 / 9
4. Unter- officers (Corporals) 24 / 83
5. Soldiers (Man) 249 / 1286
6. Total 326 / 1378

II. Horses structure

1. Riding – /–
2. artillery – / 2
3. transports – / 4

III. Equipment

1. Rifles – / 50
2. submachine guns 11 / 27
3. Machine guns:
- LMGs 8/15
- HMGs 7 / 34
4. Mortars 8 / 25
5. Guns and howitzers
- guns – / 3
- howitzers – /–
- anti-aircraft – / 6
7. Tanks – / 2
8. Portable radio sets of all types 1 / –
9. Cartridges 100 / 15,000
10. A pomegranate 300 / -
11. Pistols 10 / –
12. Tractors – / –
13. Anti-Tank Rifle – / 3

The commander units (the chief of a staff of a formation, army, front)
colonel [ Logodzinsky's signature – Yuri ]

The chief of 4-th branch
captain [ Los` signature – Yuri ] /Los`/
From last document it is well visible, that 1-n the Polish infantry division of name T. KOSTJUSHKO was not that whipping boy whom present Polish official propagation draws her for us.
Really, for three days of participation in the Battle of LENINO the 1 Polish Infantry Division of a name of T. KOSTJUSHKO has captured 326 Germans, including three officers.
Everything, so-called, Anders's army (it is that army which has run away in the summer of 1942 from Russia when Germans came to Stalingrad) had no so much captured for all 1943 and 1944.

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Yuri
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#64

Post by Yuri » 09 Jun 2007, 19:32

THE LIST
SUPERVISING COMMAND STRUCTURE
1-st POLISH INFANTRY DIVISION
name "T. KOSTJUSHKO"


1. A serial number
2. A post
3. A military rank
4. A surname and a name
Attachments
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henryk
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#65

Post by henryk » 09 Jun 2007, 20:03

In English it is "1st Tadeusz Kosciuszko Infantry Division". Why does the Russian language document have an incorrect transliteration of "Kościuszko".

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Yuri
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#66

Post by Yuri » 09 Jun 2007, 20:18

Addition to
To the list
Supervising command structure
1-st Polish the Infantry Division
name "T. Kostjushko"
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Yuri
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#67

Post by Yuri » 09 Jun 2007, 20:29

henryk wrote:In English it is "1st Tadeusz Kosciuszko Infantry Division". Why does the Russian language document have an incorrect transliteration of "Kościuszko".
Thank.
The full name of this division such:
1-ÿ Ïîëüñêàÿ Äèâèçèÿ Ïåõîòû â Ñ.Ñ.Ñ.Ð èìåíè «Òàäåóøà Êîñòþøêî»

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Yuri
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#68

Post by Yuri » 09 Jun 2007, 21:42

I had an opportunity to read the report of the commander of division general Berling on operations in battle of Lenino on October, 12-13, 1943.
General Berling wrote this report in Russian. For those who understands Russian, all will be clear. However, to translate the Berling’s report to the English language – a task not simple.
The matter is that Berling writes in Russian not absolutely correctly and, besides, he writes very long and complex offers. Such text is combined for translation even to the professional translator, and for me it at all on no forces.

If the Polish side does not have text of this report I can lay out after a while it here in Russian.
Now I can tell the following - in the Berling’s report it is clearly written, that in battle of Lenino his division has received in addition howitzer-artillery brigade (two howitzer regiments). Besides Berling writes, that in battle a division supported two more gun regiments and one mortar regiment. Thus, in battle of Lenino 1-n the Polish Division of Infantry had six artillery regiments! – one Polish and five Russian!
There is a map of accommodation of these six artillery units.
The map is signed by the chief of a staff colonel Lagodzinsky and the chief of 1-st department major KUNDEREVICH.

Thus, the Berling’s report and this map one more direct proof false modern Polish official propagation.

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Yuri
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#69

Post by Yuri » 10 Jun 2007, 11:05

Losses of units 1 Polish Division of Infantry in the USSR a name «Tadeusz Kosciuszko» in Battle of LENINO.
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Stephan
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#70

Post by Stephan » 12 Jun 2007, 13:23

Yuri proves the weaponry was up to date along the standards, or even better - as they had get extra support by soviet artillery.
Excellent, and it should be so and not less. It is very wise to give some extras for your new ally!
But. The fighting reports talks about losses and severe lack of ammo from almost all units.
This is of course a proof of heavy fightings. But perhaps also a witness of way too little ammo for a heavy fighting?? Or perhaps, their routines for forwarding reserve ammo during fight wasnt yet OK...

And thus, perhaps it is from here the both myth has come: they had not enough with ammo, and thus had the feeling of helpness.
With time, perhaps only half of the rifles and guns had some ammo left - presumately the best shooters get what was left - and the saying only half of the soldiers had a rifle was borne...

The other myth talking about some subunits putting a weak fight may also be explained by the lack of ammo.

What do you think? Is this hypothesis plausible?

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Yuri
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#71

Post by Yuri » 15 Jun 2007, 01:08

As
Last edited by Yuri on 15 Jun 2007, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.

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#72

Post by Yuri » 15 Jun 2007, 01:10

Stephan wrote:Yuri proves the weaponry was up to date along the standards, or even better - as they had get extra support by soviet artillery.
Excellent, and it should be so and not less. It is very wise to give some extras for your new ally!
But. The fighting reports talks about losses and severe lack of ammo from almost all units.
This is of course a proof of heavy fightings. But perhaps also a witness of way too little ammo for a heavy fighting?? Or perhaps, their routines for forwarding reserve ammo during fight wasnt yet OK...

And thus, perhaps it is from here the both myth has come: they had not enough with ammo, and thus had the feeling of helpness.
With time, perhaps only half of the rifles and guns had some ammo left - presumately the best shooters get what was left - and the saying only half of the soldiers had a rifle was borne...

The other myth talking about some subunits putting a weak fight may also be explained by the lack of ammo.

What do you think? Is this hypothesis plausible?
Well, let's look, how all was actually.

According to the report of an army headquarters of 33-rd army from 10/10/1943 this army had the following forces
(look below the first and the second a picture).

From the specified forces three rifle divisions should participate in offensive operation (officer/sergeant/private/total):
- 43-n RD on right flank - 635/ 1,049/ 3,640/ 5,324;
- 290-n RD on the left flank - 602/ 939/ 2,946/ 4,489;
- 222-n RD in the second echelon (for 290-th RD) - 667/ 1,114/ 3,381/ 5,162;
Total in Russian rifle divisions: 1,904/ 3,102/ 9,969/ 14,975;

In the center, as is known, there came 1-n the Polish Infantry Division - 1,031/ 2,702/ 8,411/ 12,144

However in 17.00 October, 13 commanding 33-rd Army general - colonel GORDOV has commanded to crumple from front and to remove in rear 1-th Polish Infantry Division « as not capable to conduct battles against Germans ». At night with 13 for October, 14 the Polish Infantry division has replaced Russian 164-n RD - 598/ 905/ 3,080/ 4,583

Others rifle divisions 33-th Army in operations did not participate.
Did not participate in operations and tank units of army.
On the other hand all artillery and mortar regiments have been involved in operations 33-th Army and as the attached 5-th Artillery Division.

Except for it 33-n the Army has received from commanding Western front for strengthening:
- One artillery division - 5-n Artillery Division;
- Two mobile corps - 5-th Mechanized Corps and 6-th Guards Cavalry Corps.
Mobile troops intended for development of success. These corps engaging to action only after infantry formations have created break in defense of the opponent.

All artillery of 33-rd Army, namely, all brigades of 5-th artillery division, all own artillery regiments of 33-rd Army and all artillery regiments of infantry divisions 12/10/1943 at 9 o'clock 20 minutes have opened fire on positions of the opponent. Artillery preparation of attack proceeded during 1 hour of 40 minutes.

After the ending of artillery preparation some artillery units were attached to infantry divisions. For example, 1-st Polish Infantry Division there was added 67-n Howitzer Brigade (1039-th and 1211-th Howitzer Artillery Regiments) from structure of 5-th Artillery Division. Added artillery units operated under orders of corresponding commanders rifle (infantry) of divisions.

Other artillery units should support actions of infantry divisions. In particular, for support of 1-st Polish Infantry Division have been appointed 18-n Artillery Brigade (494-th and 538-th Artillery Regiments) and 307-th mortar a regiment.

However, not only infantry regiments of 1-st Polish Infantry division have received such impressive help on the part of artillery. Regiments of Russian rifle divisions as had the corresponding help from artillery.

Pay attention to that site where operated 12,144 inexperienced Poles general - colonel GORDOV has put 4,583 Russian which had wide experience of struggle.

However it yet all.
On October, 14 on this site Germans have thrown in addition units 252 ID, 18 ID (mot.) and 25 ID (mot.). Not looking, on it Russian 164-n RD has grasped a boundary of 1,5 kms southwest PUNITSCHE and has reflected all counterattacks of Germans.
From this it is visible, that 164-n RD, having 4,583 person, operated with the big effect, than 1-n Polish Infantry Division having 12,144 person.



Concerning absence ostensibly an ammunition.

On the divisional base of 1-st Polish Infantry Division an ammunition were available in enough.
Problems was not that, ostensibly, there was no ammunition.
The problem was in absence of fuel for motor transport which should provide delivery of an ammunition for units of a division.

The matter is that the commander 1 PID the general Berling has ordered to transfer all fuel for refuelling motor vehicles of an anti-tank battalion (divisional) and motor vehicles of other fighting units.
As a result of it automobile company could not bring up an ammunition from divisional base up to a place of operations.
The divisional base of 1-st PID has remained in area of a former presence of this formation is 68 kilometers from that area where units conducted operations.

However it does not mean, that units of 1-st Polish Infantry Division had no ammunition. It is absolutely not true.
In the Berling’s report it is clearly specified, that in the morning of 12/10/43 units of 1-st Polish division had on 1 (one) unit of fire rifle cartridges and on 1,5 units of fire of artillery shells.
Hence, units of 1-st Polish Infantry Division could conduct fights during five days at normal fighting activity or two days at heavy fights.

According to the fighting report of a staff of 1-st PID from 13/10/1943 on 17.00 (there is a signature of the chief of staff Lagodzinsky) units of 1-st Polish Infantry Division had 0,8 units of fire of artillery shells and 0,6 units of fire a rifle (PPD*PPSh) cartridges(patrons).
From the Lagodzinsky’s message it is visible, that units of 1-st Polish Infantry Division spent for one and a half day 0,7 units of fire of the artillery shells and 0,4 units of fire the rifle cartridges (without taking into account that they have received in addition for this period).
Thus, on October, 12 and 13 intensity of operations was a little above the average a level.
Attachments
Add33Army.jpg
Add33Army.jpg (98.52 KiB) Viewed 2482 times
Sostav_33A_43-10-10_reverse.jpg
Sostav_33A_43-10-10_reverse.jpg (236.47 KiB) Viewed 2482 times
Sostav_33A_43-10-10_Face.jpg
The report
about numerical and fighting structure 33-rd Army for October, 10, 1943
Sostav_33A_43-10-10_Face.jpg (187.46 KiB) Viewed 2487 times
Last edited by Yuri on 15 Jun 2007, 08:25, edited 5 times in total.

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Yuri
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#73

Post by Yuri » 15 Jun 2007, 01:19

Here it is possible to see losses of all formations 33-rd Army for October, 11 and 12, 1943
It is not difficult to notice, that losses of the Polish division are much higher than losses of Russian divisions
Attachments
lenino_186.gif
lenino_186.gif (37.07 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
Losses33Army121043.jpg
Losses of all formations 33-rd Army for October, 11 and 12, 1943
Losses33Army121043.jpg (190.26 KiB) Viewed 2510 times

Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Battle of Lenino 1943

#74

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 29 Sep 2009, 00:08

Battle of Lenino 1943 (from the Polish war movie "Do krwi ostatniej", 1977):

Part 1:



Part 2:



Part 3:



Part 4:



Part 5:


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michalst
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Re: Battle of Lenino 1943

#75

Post by michalst » 10 Oct 2010, 14:28

yuri:
What are the sources behind the tables? seems like a english publication, or ?

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