Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Hi gentlemen,
I'm working on a anzio mod for a PC wargame. I've collated lot of data. I've some questions, let's see if you can help me anyway. (I did a quick search about this question on the forum)
1- Some sources claim 65 Infanterie Div. had 3 battlions in each regiment, other sources say 2. Any confirmation on this?
2- Some sources claim 191 Gren.Regt. (from 71 Inf.Div) did take part in the battle. Any confirmation on this? In this case, could you tell me what units?
3- Some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
4- H.K.Art.Abtl. 677. Some sources claim they were at Anzio but I don't find confirmation nor ToE for them.
5- I./29 Flak. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Others don't. Any confirmation on this? Any ToE on them?
6- Gren.Rgt. 1026. under command of LI Geb.Korps north of Rome. Some sources claim did take part on the battle, others don't. Any confirmation on this?
7- Stell.Bau.Btl. 736 Any info on this?
8- Some sources claim that five pionier battalions and two Ost battalions were ordered to Italy, but they have not been identified. Any info on this?
9- Any info aboout: LS Btl. 527, LS Btl. 676, Sich.Btl. 936, Sich.Btl. 939 ?
10- Forciano and Genziano schwere batterien. Any info on their ToE?
11- Fusilier.Abtl. 165. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Any info on this?
Bests Regards
César
I'm working on a anzio mod for a PC wargame. I've collated lot of data. I've some questions, let's see if you can help me anyway. (I did a quick search about this question on the forum)
1- Some sources claim 65 Infanterie Div. had 3 battlions in each regiment, other sources say 2. Any confirmation on this?
2- Some sources claim 191 Gren.Regt. (from 71 Inf.Div) did take part in the battle. Any confirmation on this? In this case, could you tell me what units?
3- Some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
4- H.K.Art.Abtl. 677. Some sources claim they were at Anzio but I don't find confirmation nor ToE for them.
5- I./29 Flak. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Others don't. Any confirmation on this? Any ToE on them?
6- Gren.Rgt. 1026. under command of LI Geb.Korps north of Rome. Some sources claim did take part on the battle, others don't. Any confirmation on this?
7- Stell.Bau.Btl. 736 Any info on this?
8- Some sources claim that five pionier battalions and two Ost battalions were ordered to Italy, but they have not been identified. Any info on this?
9- Any info aboout: LS Btl. 527, LS Btl. 676, Sich.Btl. 936, Sich.Btl. 939 ?
10- Forciano and Genziano schwere batterien. Any info on their ToE?
11- Fusilier.Abtl. 165. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Any info on this?
Bests Regards
César
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Update! (For whatever reason I'm not able to edit my earlier post)
Questions unresolved:
1- Some sources claim 191 Gren.Regt. (from 71 Inf.Div) did take part in the battle. Any confirmation on this? In this case, could you tell me which units?
2- Some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
3- H.K.Art.Abtl. 677. Some sources claim they were at Anzio but I don't find confirmation nor ToE for them.
4- I./29 Flak. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Others don't. Any confirmation on this? Any ToE on them?
Questions unresolved:
1- Some sources claim 191 Gren.Regt. (from 71 Inf.Div) did take part in the battle. Any confirmation on this? In this case, could you tell me which units?
2- Some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
3- H.K.Art.Abtl. 677. Some sources claim they were at Anzio but I don't find confirmation nor ToE for them.
4- I./29 Flak. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Others don't. Any confirmation on this? Any ToE on them?
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
More questions:
-1114 Sturm Geshutz Abt. of the 114 Jager Division.
-Stug Abteillung 1171 of the 71 ID
-Sturm-Geshutz Abt. 1046 of the 44 HuD Div (Martin Block stated "they had been equipped with 8 Stu.Gesch. 7,5cm lang (ital.) and 12 Stu.Gesch. 10,5cm kurz (ital.) in January 1944. it also included a platoon with 3 German StuG III L/48 until late April 1944.")
Were they at Anzio (up to 22th Feb)?
Specially the last one becuase some sources claim a Pz.Jg.Zuege from "H.u.D." Div was attached to 71 Inf.Div. However Jentz stated that PJ,Abt.171 from 71 Inf.Div. have 3. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (15x PzKw IIIn (75mm Kz) and 35. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (8x PzKw IIIL)
Also some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
-1114 Sturm Geshutz Abt. of the 114 Jager Division.
-Stug Abteillung 1171 of the 71 ID
-Sturm-Geshutz Abt. 1046 of the 44 HuD Div (Martin Block stated "they had been equipped with 8 Stu.Gesch. 7,5cm lang (ital.) and 12 Stu.Gesch. 10,5cm kurz (ital.) in January 1944. it also included a platoon with 3 German StuG III L/48 until late April 1944.")
Were they at Anzio (up to 22th Feb)?
Specially the last one becuase some sources claim a Pz.Jg.Zuege from "H.u.D." Div was attached to 71 Inf.Div. However Jentz stated that PJ,Abt.171 from 71 Inf.Div. have 3. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (15x PzKw IIIn (75mm Kz) and 35. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (8x PzKw IIIL)
Also some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Quite a lot time passed.
I didn't progressed any further. It seems I somewhat upset Martin Block since I wrote two PM to him and got no reply. So my sincere apologies if I upset you.
Can anybody help me with that issues?
Thank you in advance.
I didn't progressed any further. It seems I somewhat upset Martin Block since I wrote two PM to him and got no reply. So my sincere apologies if I upset you.
Can anybody help me with that issues?
Thank you in advance.
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Is's been some time since i went through the KTB and Anlagen, but here is what I recall.
IIRC, it was the Stab and Regimentseinheiten, which was deployed to take command of the KG consisting of Fus.Btl. 171, Gren.Rgt. 194 (I, II), Art.Rgt. 171 (Stab, II, III, 11., and 12.), Pz.Jg.Abtl. 171 (with elements from Inf.Div. H.u.D.), Pi.Btl. 171, and FEB 171 that was sent off from the division at 0830 22 January on orders from A.O.K. 10 to command of I. Fsch.Jgr.K.Indragnir wrote:Update! (For whatever reason I'm not able to edit my earlier post)
Questions unresolved:
1- Some sources claim 191 Gren.Regt. (from 71 Inf.Div) did take part in the battle. Any confirmation on this? In this case, could you tell me which units?
I will check the Panzerlage, but those of 14. Armee are not as complete as 10. Armee...I will see what I can find.2- Some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
Never clarified, but the battalion headquarters served as III. Gruppe des Heeres-Küsten-Abschnitts Italien-Mitte during this time. I know there were quite a few coast artillery defense maps in the Archives, probably under HG-C? I suspect the references to it are for one or more of the batteries deployed in the area. It consisted of two batteries of 17cm K and two batteries of 10cm K at this time, but was expanded to eight batteries in April, probably by absorbing other independent batteries (there were quite a few created on an ad hoc basis).3- H.K.Art.Abtl. 677. Some sources claim they were at Anzio but I don't find confirmation nor ToE for them.
I./Flak-Regiment 29 (gem. mot.) was in HG-Mitte in the area of Vitebsk.4- I./29 Flak. Some sources claim they were at Anzio. Others don't. Any confirmation on this? Any ToE on them?
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
It was organized with Italian StuG in September 1943, but the initial deployment to Anzio by Pz.Jg.Abtl. 114 was apparently without it. That leaves 2. Kompanie with 6 s.Pak (although it was organized with 5cm Pak) and 3. Kompanie with 2cm Flak (nominally 12). 1. Kompanie with the StuG may have joined later, again I will see what I can glean from the Panzerlage.Indragnir wrote:More questions:
-1114 Sturm Geshutz Abt. of the 114 Jager Division.
From the Panzerlage:
No - that is zero - StuG were with the divisional Panzerjaeger Abteilung until sometime in June 1944. In the 6 June 1944 Lage it was recorded that StuG-Abtl. 1114 was expected to arrive at Teramo c. 10 June. It had 14 StuG on hand with 3 in long term repair. In the 27 June 10. Lage it had 13 on hand with 3 still in long term repair.
There is less information on Pz.Jg.Abtl. 71 and when the different elements went to Anzio from 10. Armee. Again, I will check the Panzerlage for any additional information.-Stug Abteillung 1171 of the 71 ID
From the Panzerlage:
The Lage recorded 8 Italian StuG (2 in LT repair) with the division as of 31 December 1943. When the rump of the division reported in the 10. Armee Lage of 25 January 1944, the StuG were no longer there, so we may presume they went with the detachment to Anzio. As of 18 February, when the detachment rejoined, there were 10 on hand, with 1 in long term and 6 in short term repair. It is unclear when the additional two arrived or if any were lost at Anzio, but I would suspect not.
Martin would be the expert on when and with what those units were equipped. However, 10. Armee orders indicate that only two Zuegen from Pz.Jg.Abtl. 46 were sent, attached to Pz.Jg.Abtl. 71. What they were equipped with is unclear.-Sturm-Geshutz Abt. 1046 of the 44 HuD Div (Martin Block stated "they had been equipped with 8 Stu.Gesch. 7,5cm lang (ital.) and 12 Stu.Gesch. 10,5cm kurz (ital.) in January 1944. it also included a platoon with 3 German StuG III L/48 until late April 1944.")
Were they at Anzio (up to 22th Feb)?
From the Panzerlage:
H.u.D. did not send any of its StuG to Anzio. It did send 8 s.Pak on 22 January and another 4 s. Pak sometime between 25 and 28 January. There were 6 still at Anzio as of 8 February and 4 as of 11 February. They all returnedby 14 February.
I would check Jentz, but my library is packed up right now. I do know that the orders from 10. Armee on the detachments sent to Anzio under command of 71. Inf.-Div. indicate that "elements" from H.u.D. were attached to those parts of Pz.Jg.Abtl. 71 ordered sent on 22 January at 0830 and that a Zuege was noted as having arrived by midday of 27 January...the inference is they were one and the same. Then on 11 February a Zuege, again presumably the same one, was ordered withdrawn and sent back to 10. Armee.Specially the last one becuase some sources claim a Pz.Jg.Zuege from "H.u.D." Div was attached to 71 Inf.Div. However Jentz stated that PJ,Abt.171 from 71 Inf.Div. have 3. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (15x PzKw IIIn (75mm Kz) and 35. Pz.Sicherungs-Kp (8x PzKw IIIL)
From the Panzerlage:
There are no indications of tanks attached to H.u.D. or 71. Inf.-Div. There is also no mention in the 14. Armee KTB, but it is incomplete. I would be curious to know where Tom got that information from, but sadly can't ask him anymore.
There is very little information available on when the StuG were assigned to the battalion, but I doubt they were ever 3. Kompanie. One of the few references to them in the KTB though specifically refer to them having 10 Pak Sfl. when ordered to Anzio at 0710 22 January. I will see if I can find when they first appear in the Panzerlage.Also some sources claim KG from 16 SS Div had Marders in their 3./SS-Stu.Abtl, other say that were StuG III (I even watched some photos but cannot say if they were earlier to Feb 20th) Maybe there were Marder and StuG at Anzio?
From the Panzerlage:
Both the Panzerlage and the 14. Armee KTB give those as s.Pak (Sfl.) The Italian StuG do not appear in the 14. Armee KTB until 22 June.
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
Thank you very much Rich!
One last question before I post my collated data about German OoB up to Feb 20th.
II./Fla.Rgt.39 did participate in the battle? some sources say yes and others don't.
One last question before I post my collated data about German OoB up to Feb 20th.
II./Fla.Rgt.39 did participate in the battle? some sources say yes and others don't.
Re: Anzio (Operation Shingle) German OoB up to Feb 20th
II./Flak-Regiment 39 (gem. mot.) was formed in December 1944 and served on the Westwall.Indragnir wrote:Thank you very much Rich!
One last question before I post my collated data about German OoB up to Feb 20th.
II./Fla.Rgt.39 did participate in the battle? some sources say yes and others don't.