Leutnant Schorm's diary

Discussions on WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean. Hosted by Andy H
Brevity
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 17 Mar 2007, 03:58
Location: chicago

Leutnant Schorm's diary

#1

Post by Brevity » 11 Jun 2014, 06:19

Hello, here is incomplete diary of Leutnant Joachim Schorm. It runs from 26 February to 14 May 1941. Does anyone have an early April part? I can't find it anywhere and would be really glad if someone could post it!

Image
Image
Image
Image

Brevity
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 17 Mar 2007, 03:58
Location: chicago

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#2

Post by Brevity » 11 Jun 2014, 06:24

14-28 April

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

29 April - 7 May
Image
Image
Image

8 - 14 May
Image
Image
Image


User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#3

Post by ClintHardware » 29 Jun 2014, 14:13

Hi Brevity

I found Schorm in three War Diaries. I changed anglicised unit references back to German to make reading easier. For the tank battle on the 2nd April at Agedabia I separated out each sentence so that it read as though Schorm was narrating the battle to the reader rather than hit the reader with a solid block of text.

Below are the sections I have included in my own book from 31st March - early on the 14th April which you are missing (each begins by stating who he is and his unit). I have quoted him in my book up to the battle with the 3rd and 4th RHA on the 13th May within Panzer Abteilung Hohmann.

NOW where did Jentz find HOHMANN?? I am dying to know where Hohmann's diary came from. Bovington Tank Museum has confirmed to me that they do not have him in their files.

Here is Schorm:

31st March

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“The enemy reported to be here has vanished. There is not enough petrol for us to go round the salt lakes. Cross-country driving is impossible. Some of the panzers are already stuck. At last, with tremendous effort, we reach the Via Balbia.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“There is considerable activity here. In the salt lake defile outside Mersa El Brega, the enemy's resistance has halted our venture... Again the British artillery blazes away. I throw myself down flat. Not very comfortable, but nothing to worry about. Shells burst on every side fifty metres away.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“Three zugen withdraw into cover. We cannot manage it yet, so I move back. We take up positions covering the south-east, fill up with petrol then sleep.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)



1st April

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“The Tommies have made April fools of us. Under the cover of night they withdrew unobserved. Our advanced panzers are now six kilometres beyond Mersa el Brega. I visit the Kompanie commander. We share the booty. One officers’ mess lorry and so for the first time we have corned beef for breakfast and RAF cigarettes. Two 18-tonne tractors haul a tank back to its base. A little way off prisoners are being interrogated. Everywhere abandoned lorries.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

2nd April

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“1800 hours. On higher ground about 1,000 metres away I see vehicles. We halt for observation. No doubt about it, they are tanks. British or Italian? Kompanie commander radios to us: ‘Assume enemy tanks.’ ” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“Commanders and gunners are naturally standing or sitting on the rear deck. Swish! That one fell ten metres from the left-hand track. Everyone disappears inside the panzer. The hatches are slammed.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)


Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“Straight ahead. 11 ‘o’clock! High explosive 1,000 metres. Fire!’

Bang! A miss!

The tracer shells whizz by!

‘Driver overtake! Left steer, brake!’

In front, behind, to the right and left the shells burst. High explosive.

‘800 metres! Same tank.’

Bang!

Too short! But my other tanks have the direction from the impact. Soon the enemy is on fire. Now for the next [target].

‘Halt!’

Hatch open, breech open, out with the shell. Change position, right ahead.

‘Armour piercing shell 800 metres! Tank moving on right.’

This one was seen carrying the enemy commander’s pennant.

‘Fire!’

Bang! A hit? Already three enemy tanks are burning.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
‘Halt!’ The breech will not open. A radioed message is received: ‘Attack tanks on high ground. Roll up the flanks!” Still the gun will not open. It must. Must!

‘Driver, one o’clock, towards the high ground.’

Panzer 625 is out of battle for the moment – brakes overheated. I reach the higher ground with three other panzers, pass the burning British tanks and look for some more. Crash! That came from the left. Heavens! British crews who have left their tanks come forward with their hands up. Six British tanks are burning. Well thank God for that.

Radio order: ‘Kompanie halt’.

Despite the halt, I go forward some 500 metres over the ridge to gain a vantage point to observe and fire. It is getting dark, we need to move quickly.

With the exception of myself, all the zugführeren (platoon commanders) are missing. With the satisfaction of having passed through my baptism in panzer combat without loss of a man or panzer, I fall asleep.” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)

4th April

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“After 30km we take up a covering position to the east. Scattered Arab camps. Rogues, these Bedouins. They have robbed wounded British soldiers down to their shirts and left them helpless in the cold. I am sure they would do the same to us too. At the roadside are masses of Italian lorries abandoned in their flight... ” (WO 169/1436) (WO 201/353) (WO 169/1173)


5th - 11th April No diary entries in my notes as yet.

14th April

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
“At 0100 I am called and ordered to report with the Kompanie Kommandeur. Situation: MG pioniere have worked a gap through the anti-tank defences; Panzer Regiment 5, MG 8, PAK (anti-tank guns) FLAK (anti-aircraft guns) will cross the gap under cover of darkness and will overwhelm the positions. STUKA attack [set for] 0645 hours.”
(WO 201/353)

Leutnant Joachim Schorm, 6./ II. Panzer Regiment 5
With least possible noise the II. Abteilung , Regimentsstab and I Abteilung move off with vehicles completely blacked out. Bitterly cold. Of course the enemy recognises us by the noise, and as ill luck would have it, a defective spot light on one of the vehicles in front goes on and off.

Soon artillery fire starts up on us, getting the range. The shells explode like fireworks. We travel 10 Kms, every nerve on edge. From time to time isolated groups of soldiers – the panzer schützen of MG 8 - and then suddenly we are in the gap. Already the panzer’s nose is first in the first ditch. The motor whines; I catch a glimpse of the stars through the hatch, when for the second time the panzer goes down [into a ditch requiring it to reverse out].

We are through and immediately take up file in battle order. In front of us 8. Kompanie, then II Abteilungsstab, then 5. Kompanie. With my zugen I travel left of the kompanie kommandeur. With II. Abteilungsstab some 60 schützen of MG 8 are [moving forward] in sparse groups with Oberst Ponath. Panzers and Schützen? Against all the rules.

Behind us follows the Regimentsstab Kompanie and the I. Abteilung, likewise the other supporting arms. Slowly, much too slowly, the column moves forward. We must of course regulate our speed to that of the schützen. In this way the enemy has time to prepare resistance. (WO 201/353)
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

Brevity
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 17 Mar 2007, 03:58
Location: chicago

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#4

Post by Brevity » 03 Jul 2014, 23:15

Thanks man, much appreciated. It looks like early April part was considered "top secret" by British, and now we can't find it anywhere! No worries, we're gonna get it someday

User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#5

Post by ClintHardware » 05 Jul 2014, 16:06

I'll have a look at my photos of war diaries for Schorm pages and add them. My previous reply includes the chunks that directly referred to action.
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

MarkN
Member
Posts: 2622
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 14:34
Location: On the continent

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#6

Post by MarkN » 22 May 2015, 13:42

Brevity wrote:Hello, here is incomplete diary of Leutnant Joachim Schorm. It runs from 26 February to 14 May 1941. Does anyone have an early April part? I can't find it anywhere and would be really glad if someone could post it!
Hi Brevity,

Bit late, but on just found this thread.

I see the missing entries have not yet been posted. Here you are...
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Brevity
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 17 Mar 2007, 03:58
Location: chicago

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#7

Post by Brevity » 25 May 2015, 19:32

MarkN wrote: Hi Brevity,

Bit late, but on just found this thread.

I see the missing entries have not yet been posted. Here you are...
Many thanks! Excellent stuff, so many questions answered :milsmile:

MarkN
Member
Posts: 2622
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 14:34
Location: On the continent

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#8

Post by MarkN » 31 May 2015, 17:42

Brevity wrote: Many thanks! Excellent stuff, so many questions answered :milsmile:
It certainly answers several questions and I wonder why it wasn't posted earlier in full.

It seems to put to bed the questions about whether MGBtl.8 lost 200 at Mersa Brega or, as is the case, didn't take part at all. And, seems to clear up losses of PzRegt.5 30 March through to 4 April - maybe not in precise numbers, but shows it was the 60 or 70 that some people claim on this forum.

shane1967
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: 22 May 2007, 13:09
Location: Australia

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#9

Post by shane1967 » 01 Jun 2015, 11:51

Clinthardware

The Hohmann document can be found in the Australian War Memorial files. If you want a copy drop me a note at [email protected]

cheers

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia

User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#10

Post by ClintHardware » 08 Aug 2015, 13:37

Schorm's account of the 31st is very welcome.

It indicates that he believed MGB 2 was the main source of the infantry in the attack and that there were considerable losses which leaves my thoughts on the 200 from MGB 8 apparently redundant. A question it raises concerns the 30th April (IIRC) when a later deployment of MGB 2 has them at full strength whilst MGB 8 was seriously down on numbers - perhaps MGB 2 was reinforced but when and where from? Why he refers to M.T.W. 2 and M2 is another question - why use two versions of abbreviations for what might be the same unit? But the multiple references to 2 instead of 8 are very unlikely to be typing errors.

The nature of the fighting including advancing over open ground with some cover towards the Vickers Brens and Lee Enfields and under 25 Pdr shelling covering the road area during some 12 hours of intermittently heavy firing would have produced considerable casualties but Schorm's seems to be the first Germam account acknowledging losses.

Thanks for posting.
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4896
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 10:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#11

Post by Urmel » 12 Aug 2015, 06:05

The info on MG8 strength in mid-April is here: http://rommelsriposte.com/2013/07/29/ho ... -the-tail/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#12

Post by ClintHardware » 15 Aug 2015, 18:39

I am quite happy with the MGB 2 evidence given above except for their unexplained completeness on the 30th April.

CAB 146/10 paints another view of the units fielded on the 31st March:
Part I Axis Operations in North Africa, Feb 1941 - Feb 1942
5 Light Division was deployed in two columns - consisting of Panzer Regiment 5 with M.G. Battalion 8, Reconnaissance Unit 3, anti-tank elements and artillery support to attack along both sides of the Via Balbia. A subsidiary column consisting of an anti-tank battalion and M.G. Battalion 2 would encircle the position to the south and thus facilitate the progress of the main column. (Fz.I(i) p.59) (Feldzug in Nordafrika)(From CAB 146/10, page 20, Section 28)

As Schorm was part of the forming up I would expect his understanding to be correct. The quote above places both MGBs in the line up. Could Schorm have got his MGBs wrong? I don't know but I think it unlikely.
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

MarkN
Member
Posts: 2622
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 14:34
Location: On the continent

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#13

Post by MarkN » 15 Aug 2015, 20:07

Do you have any other references to MG8's participation other than "Feldzug"?

If not, it would do you well to reread the FORWARD to Part 1 in CAB146/10 regarding the editors impression of Feldzug.

Given it was Feldzug that initiated your poor analysis of 2nd April too, it may prove of benefit if you reviewed all of your analysis that relies on Feldzug for substantiate your "doubts"...

User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#14

Post by ClintHardware » 16 Aug 2015, 09:18

I agree with your thoughts on Feldzug.

My analysis was based on a lack of information about MGB 2 and MGB 8 but Schorm has sorted that but Feldzug has slightly muddied it. And don't forget that none of us were confident or certain about which or both bataillone were actually involved.

I am pleased we have a statement of considerable losses from Schorm because until that point those who contributed were trying to state something along the lines of no infantry losses. Thank you Schorm and thank you MarkN. Can you tell us where your Schorm contributions came from or not?
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

MarkN
Member
Posts: 2622
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 14:34
Location: On the continent

Re: Leutnant Schorm's diary

#15

Post by MarkN » 16 Aug 2015, 12:13

MG8 were part of the 3rd attack wave against Mersa Brega. They were on the left flank, the II.Abt/PzRegt.5 (less 6.Kp) on the right. This third wave was timed to attack at dawn on 1 April. When they moved forward, they found Mersa Brega vacated.

MG8 was redesignated as VorausAbt. PONATH and lead the charge up the Via Balbia. They had 5.Kp/PzRegt.5 attached as well as other components. 5.Kp/PzRegt.5 had itself an additional mtlzug attached from 8.Kp. VorausAbt. PONATH (MG8 with attachments) finally caught up with 2nd Spt Group about 30Km short of Agedabia and engaged in the morning of 2nd April. They followed 2nd Spt Group's withdrawal and engaged with them a second time mid-afternoon a couple of kms beyond Agedabia.

Post Reply

Return to “WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean”