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Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Discussions on WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean.
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Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby Andreas on 02 Jan 2008 14:35

I am interested in the detailed loading list (by type of freight) for operations M.43 and T.18 in January 1942.

I have the following for M.43 (55. Schiffsstaffel), arriving 5 January:
Ammunition
Fuel
Rations
54 tanks (of these 32 had serious manufacturing deficiencies, and many were missing important parts of their equipment)
19 armoured cars
A large number of anti-tank guns.

For T.18 I only have 71 tanks, arriving 24 January, as well as 1,400 soldiers on board MS Vittoria of which 1,046 are rescued when she is sunk by Albacore torpedo bombers on 24 January.

Does anyone have more information?

Many thanks in advance!

All the best

Andreas
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Re: Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby RichTO90 on 02 Jan 2008 16:13

Andreas wrote:I am interested in the detailed loading list (by type of freight) for operations M.43 and T.18 in January 1942.

I have the following for M.43 (55. Schiffsstaffel), arriving 5 January:
Ammunition
Fuel
Rations
54 tanks (of these 32 had serious manufacturing deficiencies, and many were missing important parts of their equipment)
19 armoured cars
A large number of anti-tank guns.

For T.18 I only have 71 tanks, arriving 24 January, as well as 1,400 soldiers on board MS Vittoria of which 1,046 are rescued when she is sunk by Albacore torpedo bombers on 24 January.

Does anyone have more information?

Many thanks in advance!

All the best

Andreas


Interesting Andreas. The total tanks arriving in January then would be 125, fo which 93 were operational? From other sources I found that 81 Pz-III and 18 Pz-IV were received in January, so 99 total. And that on 5 January 52 medium tanks arrived and 46 on 24 January, so 98 total? Even more confusing, the Italian 12th Bn/133rd Armored Regiment reportedly lost all 52 of its M14/41 tanks in transit on 23 January? Seems to be a little difficult to reconcile. :D
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Postby Andreas on 02 Jan 2008 16:55

The German report refers only to German tanks. The 52 tanks the Italians lost would probably have been on a vessel lost out of the T.18 operation, indicating that MS Vittoria was running both large loads of freight and numbers of passengers.

No idea (yet) how many of the 46 were immediately operational. There seems to have been an issue with operability, as Cédric indicated in the M.42 thread, since they also had problems with that batch received on 19 December.

All the best

Andreas
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Postby RichTO90 on 02 Jan 2008 17:13

Andreas wrote:No idea (yet) how many of the 46 were immediately operational. There seems to have been an issue with operability, as Cédric indicated in the M.42 thread, since they also had problems with that batch received on 19 December.

All the best

Andreas


Interesting. I wonder if the Germans had the same problems that Allied forces did with shipping expensive equipment? American tanks were shipped with much of the internal stowage, as well as many basic spares, and all the extrnal stowage, boxed in waterproofed shipping cases fixed to the vehicle. But ship crews and dockyard workers loved to break into the cases and steal useful things like jerry cans, picks, shovels, and axes, hyraulic jacks, auxiliary generators, lubricating grease and oils, and so forth, to use or sell on the black market.

The other thing the Allies found was that vehicles had to be very carefully prepared for sea voyages and that if imperfectly waterproofed were in problematic condition on arrival.
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Postby Andreas on 02 Jan 2008 17:23

Unfortunately there is not even a mention of the arrival of the T.18 convoy at Tripoli in the material I have so far looked at, it got drowned in the trashing dished out to the Commonwealth troops during those days.

All the best

Andreas
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Re: Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby Jon G. on 02 Jan 2008 20:56

Andreas wrote:I am interested in the detailed loading list (by type of freight) for operations M.43 and T.18 in January 1942.

I have the following for M.43 (55. Schiffsstaffel), arriving 5 January:
Ammunition
Fuel
Rations
54 tanks (of these 32 had serious manufacturing deficiencies, and many were missing important parts of their equipment)
19 armoured cars
A large number of anti-tank guns.


Sadkovich, who only occasionally distinguishes between Italian and German supplies, has M.43 as carrying

901 men
520 vehicles
144 tanks
15,379 tons of fuel
2,417 tons of ammunition
10,242 tons of other material

From Seekrieg, I get the following five motorships as part of the convoy: Nino Bixio, Monginevro, Lerici, Monviso and Gino Allegri (the last one classified as a 'Frachter') and the tanker Giulio Giordani

Seekrieg has the DOA as January 6 while Sadkovich p 225-226 has it as January 5.

For T.18 I only have 71 tanks, arriving 24 January, as well as 1,400 soldiers on board MS Vittoria of which 1,046 are rescued when she is sunk by Albacore torpedo bombers on 24 January.

Does anyone have more information?


Sadkovich p 226 has this cargo list for T.18
97 tanks
271 vehicles
11,823 tons of material
1,467 troops

Seekrieg has T.18 made up of the ships Monviso, Vettor Pisani, Monginevro, Ravallo and Victoria; Sadkovich writes that the Ravallo was forced to return to Messina due to technical problems - presumably before she could deliver her cargo to Tripoli; unfortunately Sadkovich does not give a ship-by-ship breakdown of cargoes carried. Seekrieg has the convoy arriving on January 24th and its escort on the following day.

Apart from the Victoria the T.18 convoy suffered no losses of ships, but several of its escorting Ju 88s (presumably Crete-based a/c from LG1 ) were shot down by Cyrenaica-based RAF aircraft. Note that the Albacores which sank the Victoria came from Cyrenaica, not from Malta.
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Postby Andreas on 03 Jan 2008 13:33

Some good info here, where I asked the same question:

http://www.comandosupremo.com/forum/vie ... php?t=5479

All the best

Andreas
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Postby Jon G. on 03 Jan 2008 18:50

Oh, GREAT info, thanks! Great pdf attachment feature they have over on comandosupremo.com
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Postby 13emeDBLE on 08 Jan 2008 12:00

RichTO90 wrote: Interesting. I wonder if the Germans had the same problems that Allied forces did with shipping expensive equipment? American tanks were shipped with much of the internal stowage, as well as many basic spares, and all the extrnal stowage, boxed in waterproofed shipping cases fixed to the vehicle. But ship crews and dockyard workers loved to break into the cases and steal useful things like jerry cans, picks, shovels, and axes, hyraulic jacks, auxiliary generators, lubricating grease and oils, and so forth, to use or sell on the black market.

The other thing the Allies found was that vehicles had to be very carefully prepared for sea voyages and that if imperfectly waterproofed were in problematic condition on arrival.


The main reasons was mechanicals troubles from brand new tanks. Problem should occure directing on the german manufacturing plant... But Axis also underwent some problems with stolen cargos in Southern Italy or in Libya (in Rommel's papers), mainly for food.

Regards,

CM
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Postby 13emeDBLE on 08 Jan 2008 12:13

The datas for german cargoes loaded in january 42 for Africa was :

03.01 from naples (Convoy M43) :

in Monginevro : 11 Panzer and 816 tons (including 418 t fuel)

in Lerici : 14 Pz, 4 armoured cars, 2 x 5cm Pak, half mixed Aufklarung-kompanie 588 (? men) and 1.054 tons (including 498 t ammunitions)

in Bixio : 8 Pz, 4 arm. cars, 1 Pak 5cm and half mixed Aufklarung-kompanie 588 (? men) and 1.057 tons (including 498 t ammunitions) ;

in Monvisio : 8 tanks, 2 arm. cars, 2 Flak 43, 2 guns 8,8cm and 10 guns 7,62cm and 542 tons (not specified)

in the Cino Allegri : 13 Pz, 9 Arm. cars, 10 x 7,62cm guns, 10 Pak 38, 3 self-propelled 7,62cm and 2 self-propelled 4,75cm and 1.348 tons (including 878 t fuel)

in tanker Ciordani : 4.052 t fuel

about 09.01 from Brindisi

in Ariosto (alone) : 188 tons (including 140 t ammunitions and 20 t spares for Motor-trucks and Panzers)

in Bosforo (alone) : 284 tons (including 99 t fuel and 15 t spares MT)

in Petrarca (alone) : 296 tons (including 152 t fuel and 16 t spares for MT and Pz)

about 18.01 (port unspecified)

in the Atlas (alone) : 1 gun 7,62cm and 779 tons (including 320 t fuel, 37 t spares Pz and 241 t ammunitions)

in the Benghasi (alone) : 828 tons (including 428 t fuel, 115 t ammunitions and 35 t spares)

in the Wachtfels (alone) : 10 Panzer, 10 arm. cars, 3 self-propelled 7,62cm, 2 SP 4,7cm, 10 Pak 38 and 2.969 tons (including 1.497 t fuel and 77 t ammunitions)

about 30.01 from unspecified ports

in the Rondine (alone) : 2,270 cbm fuel

in the Italia (alone) : 8.000 Teller mines

in the Alegri (alone) : 9 Pz III and 4 Pz II, 2 guns leFH. 18, 10 t Pz ammunitions and 468 t fuel.

The document (ref. Pz.AA. 33142/62) recorded and the end the total for january 1942 : 81 Pz III, 18 PzIV and 21 others (presumably Pz II) and 14 scouts cars.

Hope this will help you.... unless as usual numbers are not corresponding each others. :?

I guess that the 71 tanks quoted for T18 convoy were partly italians one....

CM
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Re: Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby Urmel on 06 Dec 2011 14:49

I have Atlas with 4 tanks also.

Also see this: http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/20 ... of-jan-42/
The excellence of [German] forward repair and recovery organisation gives us a salutary lesson in this respect. 7 Armoured Division report, Sept. 1941

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle in the Desert 1941/42
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Re: Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby Urmel on 04 Jan 2012 18:27

I also only have Wachtfels arriving at the end of February. Was she held back by a lack of escorts?
The excellence of [German] forward repair and recovery organisation gives us a salutary lesson in this respect. 7 Armoured Division report, Sept. 1941

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle in the Desert 1941/42
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Re: Loading list Operation M.43 and T.18

Postby Urmel on 14 Jun 2012 21:46

Urmel wrote:I have Atlas with 4 tanks also.

Also see this: http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/20 ... of-jan-42/


Atlas arrived 23 Jan in Tripoli. Escorted by RN Perseo. So her cargo would not have influenced the counter offensive.
The excellence of [German] forward repair and recovery organisation gives us a salutary lesson in this respect. 7 Armoured Division report, Sept. 1941

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle in the Desert 1941/42
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