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Chetniks collaborating with Axis?

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Chetniks collaborating with Axis?

Postby Didov on 09 Feb 2010 11:11

-------SPLIT FROM THE THREAD "Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration"------


gorskizdrug wrote:Typical Chetnik policy in the WWII, waiting, squirming, back stabbing, without clear agenda and cause. The result is very known to all of us, their leader ended up not as a soldier and hero ( like in that funny American movie made during WWII ), he ended up like a criminal!!


Obviously a decorated criminal. Anyhow, about you and your Chetnik policy. There is a list of question for communists and other anti-Chetnik movements :
1. Priest Perišić was the first who made an uprising against Ustashas in Kazanci. Whos commander he was?
2. Avtovac, the first liberated settlement in Yugoslavia were liberated by priest Perišić, and lt. Popovic. Whos commanders were they?
3. Uprising in Montenegro were organized by : Pavle Djurisic, Bajo Stanisic, Blazo Djukanovic and Djordje Lasic. Whos commanders were they?
4. Uprising in Bosnia and Dinara was led by priest Djuić, Mane Rokvic, Brana Bogunovic, Uros Drenovic, Vlada Novakovic, etc. Whos commanders were they?
5. Uprising in eastern Bosnia was led by major Dangic and Todorovic. Whos commanders were they?
6. Whos commander was Veselin Misita, the liberator of Loznica? BTW he captured 93 German soldiers, first german garrison forced to surrender in occupied Europe.
7. Who liberated those cities : Chachak, Milanovac, Krusevac during uprising?
8. Who organized the attack against axis forced during novebmer and october of 1943. and liberated Prijepolje, Priboj, Berane, Visegrad, Roagatica, etc and killed 1.500 axis soldiers?
9. Who captured 700 Germans during the battle for Krusevac 10.14. 1944. and captured another 900 during the battle for Chachak?
10. Who liberated Modricha from Ustasha 1.14.1945.?
Oh yeah, Chetniks were very static weren't they?
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby kiseli on 09 Feb 2010 11:58

you made translation from web site "pogledi" from kragujevac, what is wildly chetnik site.
to make short, do you have documents, as proof of your statement?

Uprising in Bosnia and Dinara was led by priest Djuić, Mane Rokvic, Brana Bogunovic, Uros Drenovic, Vlada Novakovic, etc. Whos commanders were they?


1.for uros drenovic we know that he was collaborator. you have his picture, and copy of document
2. for djujic is very easy to put his picture with italians. same with djurisic...they have ben collaborators

Image
djujic with italian officer

Image

djujic with ljotic

Image
djurisic with germans.BTW, djurisic is proud owner of iron cross...
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby Didov on 09 Feb 2010 18:36

Ok.
1. Loznica
Date : 31.August 1941.
Chetniks (Podrinje and Adriatic corps) : 8 killed, 10 wounded
Germans : 12 killed, 93 captured
taken from : Dojcilo Mitrovic, "Zapadna Srbija", Belgrade, 223,234: IaN AVII, NA, 44 X—6/1—132; National Archives Microfilm Publication, Roll 132, Declasified D-1978, CIA-HR 70-2
2. Liberation of Bogatic
Date : 1. september 1941.
Chetniks (Cer corps) : 25 killed and unknown wounded
Germans : 1 killed, 8 wounded
(ZB.NOR, I/1—385; Dušan Trbojević, Cersko-majevička grupa korpusa Dragoslava Račića, str.28-32)
3. Krupanj
Chetniks : 3 killed
Partisans : 3 killed
Germans : 9 killed, 30 wounded, 130 captured
(Stanko Mladenović, Pop Vlada Zečević, Loznica, 1975, str.97; Glas Javnosti, 17.2.2004 )
4. Banja Koviljaca
Date : 6. september 1941.
Chetniks (Cer corps) : 29 killed, 12 shot
Germans : 9 killed, 24 wounded, 51 captured
Ustasha : uknown
(AVII, NAV, T—312, R—452, S—8037512-3)
5. Chachak
Date 1. october 1941.
Chetniks (Jelica corps and Chachak corps) : 20-30 killed, much more wounded
Germans : 10 killed, 10 wounded
(AVII, NAV. T—501, R—250, S—1356—7)
6. Stragari
Chetniks (Takovo corps) : no casualties
Germans : 2 killed, 40 captured soldiers and 4 officers
(AVII, NAV. T—312, R—425, S—8003015; Z.Vučković, n.d, str.138)
etc. etc. etc.
1.for uros drenovic we know that he was collaborator. you have his picture, and copy of document

We already discussed about Uros Drenovic and his role in all this.
Image
Where was this picture taken and when.
Image
What occasion? I will remind the readers that Dimitrije ljotić had 3.800 soldiers total and in his best days.
Image
What occasion?
And the last and most glorious of it all:
djurisic with germans.BTW, djurisic is proud owner of iron cross...

there is a reward of 100 eu (maybe 500) for anyone who can prove this iron cross decoration is true. If you prove it to be true I will do my very best to contact the person who actually made this offer and helpfully money will be deposited to your account.
Also, I will remind the readers that not even Ante Pavelic was decorated with this distinctive Nazi "medal".
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby kiseli on 09 Feb 2010 19:04

in 1941 yugoslav partizans and serbian chetniks have some agreement about joint action. in 1942 mihailovic "legalized" his chetniks detachments with nedic's forces (read germans), and put them under tactical nedic/german command

MINUTES OF TALKS HELD IN THE VILLAGE OF DIVCI BETWEEN DRAZA MIHAILOVIC AND THE
REPRESENTATIVES OF THE GERMAN COMMAND IN SERBIA


NAW
Mf. T — 314,
R 1457, 1314—1321

To Section Ic No. 1514/41 geh.
Secret

Belgrade, November 11, 1941

Minutes of Meeting with Serbian Staff Colonel Draza Mihailovic on November 11, 1941
The meeting took place in the village tavern opposite the Divci railway station, beginning at 7.15 p.m. and ending at 8.35 p.m.

The meeting was attended on the German side by:
Lieutenant Colonel Kogard
Military Administrative Counsellor Dr. Kiessel
Captain Dr. Mattel
SS Obersturmfiihrer Wienicke
Standartenfiihrcr Matern

On the Serbian side by:
Colonel Draza Mihailovic
Major Alexander MiSid (both in uniform)
Colonel Pantic
Captain Mitrovic (both in civilian suits)

Abbreviations used in text: Lt. Colonel Kogard — K. Colonel Draza Mihailovic — D. M. Major Alex. MiSid — A. M. Colonel Pantic — P.


Lieut. Colonel Kogard opened the meeting by reading the following statement:
"Colonel Mihailovic! I have been instructed by the High C immand in Serbia to state the following:
Two weeks ago you informed us in Belgrade through your confidential representatives that you intend "to prevent the r.itile shedding of Serbian blood and wholesale destruction of Serbian property". At the same time you offered to fight against communism together with the German Wehrmacht and the organs of the Nedic government. This offer has none the less been rejected by the High Command because:
1) The German Wehrmacht will settle accounts with communism alone and in the shortest possible time, and
2) The Commander-in-Chief cannot trust you as an ally.The Nedic Government having assessed the situation inSerbia correctly joined the struggle against communism since the very outset. General Nedic strove to enlist all men fit for combat on Serbian territory in this struggle, and yet in your case, Colonel, did not succeed in doing so, notwithstanding his manifold endeavors. You have joined the side of those who wish to drive the Germans out of the country and who have concluded a close fighting alliance with the communists already by the end of September. You have waged armed combat with those officers, non-commissioned officers and soldiers who had previously hidden in the forests and remote hamlets and have not been deported to captivity in the appropriate manner prescribed by the German Wehrmacht.
As for your fighting methods, it has unfortunately been established that your men often resorted to various underhand ruses and stratagems in order to get the better of the unsuspecting German troops. I would call attention in this connection to the taking of German prisoners at Krupanj, Loznica and Gor. Milanovac. In this manner your Chetniks inflicted harm on the German Wehrmacht by means not used by regular troops.
In view of the foregoing, when you suddenly proclaim yourself an ally of the German Wehrmacht, one cannot believe that you are motivated by genuine conviction.
The German Wehrmacht has begun the destruction of all "insurgents" and achieved satisfactory results in this respect. As you are also aware, first class combat divisions and tank units are on the march. Your position, Colonel, is deteriorating from day to day, while ours is improving continuously. As a staff officer you are sure to assess the situation correctly and know full well, that both due to the approaching winter and the continuance of the German military operations your combat groups will come to a bad end.
The German Wehrmacht cannot burden itself with allies which join it temporarily for reasons of expediency. Besides, the attitude of your leaders and men cannot be changed as fast as necessary.
Had your offer been prompted by sincere conviction, Colonel, this would have inevitably have been reflected in the conduct of operations of late. But this was not the case as you permitted a tank attack on the town of Kraljevo on November 1, in spite of the fact that you submitted your offer to the German Wehrmacht on October 28.
You Colonel Mihailovic, have had several opportunities to join the forces of order in the interest of the Serbian people and yet you failed to avail yourself of the former. Kosta Pecanac embarked on the right course at the right time.
As for your intention to prevent the shedding of Serbian blood and destruction of Serbian property I am authorized to indicate the only way to do so and that is:
"The cessation of armed hostilities and unconditional surrender."
This calls for the handing over of all armaments, ammunition and equipment. The liberation of German prisoners of war taken captive by your groups or currently located on your territory. You are aware, Colonel, that the continuance of armed struggle would render you responsible for the continuance of bloodshed, all the more so as one hundred Serbs pay with their lives for every German killed, and fifty Serbs are killed for every wounded German. Your men are also aware that the German Wehrmacht is obliged to carry cut reprisals primarily against the families of the fighters in the forests.
The decision to surrender will not be an easy one for you Colonel. None the less, even after careful consideration, the German High Command in Serbia does not see any other way out of the present situation. The resumption of illegal armed struggle by your combat groups at an opportune moment would not be defendable either from the German or the Serbian point of view. And this seems to be the intention of your superiors, those who pull the strings from London.
In so far as you, Colonel, reject the, conditions I have mentioned, armed operations against your Chetniks will be continued along the same lines as those already mounted against the communist bands. You may rest assured, after having been uselessly exposed to rack and ruin once again, but this time through your fault, peace, order and .work will be promptly restored in Serbia after the latest action of the German Wehrmacht."

Colonel Draza Mihailovic answered: (Shorthand transcript).
"I am neither the representative of London nor of any other foreign country. I am therefore not interested in your previous or future intentions. But it is not the blood of the guilty ones that will be shed as a result of the measures currently under way in Serbia. The communists will continue their surprise attacks in order to kill the innocent. Nedic was unable to win the necessary following as it was impossible to act overtly. The Serbian people are freedom loving. Regardless of the fact that they have lost their freedom they hope to regain it. The Nedic government openly sided with the occupying powers and this was an error. I have no intention of fighting against the occupying forces because as a staff officer I am well aware of the relative strength of both sides. I am not a communist, nor do I work for them. But I have attempted to mitigate and prevent their terror. The Germans themselves surrendered Uzice and then the race between my forces and the communists began. When the Germans withdrew their weak garrison the communists attacked Gornji Milanovac and I was therefore obliged to do so the same. They marched on Cacak, and I had to follow suit. They began advancing on Kraljevo, I was forced to do the same.
The attack on Krupanj is no act of mine, and was carried out by a renegade Lieutenant Martinovic. But my men did march on Loznica in order to prevent the communists from taking it. The surprise attack on Sabac was carried out by insubordinate elements. I have given the order to retreat there, as it is pointless to attack Sabac if the left bank cannot be taken. I have never concluded any serious agreements with the communists because they have no concern for the people. They are led by foreigners, by men who are not Serbs: by the Bulgarian Jankovic, the Jew Lindermaier, the Hungarian Borota, two Mohammedans whose names I do not know, Major Boganic of the Ustashi. This is all I know about the communist leadership. They want the greatest possible number of Serbs killed in order to assure their success later on. It was not possible to reach any agreement with them. My sole intention was to prevent their terror which is just as frightful as the German one. The people are currently subjected to terrorist action from two sides and are innocent! Communist terror is carried out by provoking incidents so as to cause the shooting of those arrested by the Germans.
As a soldier I am not ashamed of being a nationalist. It is this capacity only that I wish to serve my people. I have not sided with those who wish to drive out the Germans. But, in view of the weak German forces stationed in the country, I could not permit Serbia to become communist. Combat was Waged only against a few officers and non-commissioned officers and in a few cases only. It is our duty as soldiers not to surrender as long as we can hold out. This is why we cannot be reproached for not surrendering. I never intended resorting to underhand ruses and stratagems in this respect.
I ask to be enabled to continue the struggle against communism which began on October 31. We are well versed in forest combat especially against elements who are seeking to hide.
Ammunition is indispensable. I counted on it when I came here. Communism in the country constitutes a danger for the Serbian people and the German Wehrmacht which has other tasks than to fight it here,
I had hoped to obtain a limited quantity of ammunition this evening and believed that this question would primarily be examined on this occasion.
I do not know that my Chetniks have resorted to illicit means of combat. Armed struggle against the occupier was a necessary evil in order to prevent the broad masses of the people from going over to the communists. The situation is more than clear to me as a soldier. I would never have embarked on surprise attacks if the communists had not used these tactics and if the Germans had not abandoned several towns and villages. The communists dispose with an ammunitions factory in Uzice and have an ammunitions depot in their hands. In the interest of the Serbian people and in the German interest I request that ammunition be delivered to me this evening if possible.
In that case there would be no more surprise attacks on the German troops. Otherwise, namely if no ammunition is forthcoming, the communists will regain control of the area and establish contact with Montenegro and Sandzak. They are mobilizing the people by force, by means of terror and, at pistol point, driving these men to attack. There are not many convinced ideologists in the communist ranks. In the villages the number of their followers is barely one per cent and slightly more in the cities. My secret idea was to protect the Serbian people, which is imbued with nationalism, from communism. This is why I had to try and muster sufficient strength to protect the nationalist elements and thus avoid unnecessary losses on all sides. I am not responsible for the attack on Kraljevo on November 1, as I have just ordered my troops to withdraw and rally for the struggle against communism. But there are still Partisan groups in the environs of Kraljevo.
I could not agree with Kosta Pecanac, because an overt agreement had been concluded which the people would not have been able to accept. Kosta Pecanac has lost all esteem among the people. Had I followed his example I would likewise remained without esteem and influence. I do not know how, as a foreigner, you will understand my statement, but just reflect, whether a man can side openly with an occupier, when he publicly states his intention to fight against those who have assumed the attractive title of "fighters for freedom". Kosta Pecanac has been branded as a traitor. It is only possible to act secretly on a nationalist basis, so as not to compromise the national cause.
I suppose that following this statement greater trust could be shown me concerning the honesty and sincerity of my intentions, and that it would be possible to extend assistance to me. I ask that the situation be understood as is useful for both sides.
I repeat my request that I be supplied with a certain quantity of ammunition this evening.
It goes without saying that maximum secrecy on this matter should be maintained on both sides. I wolud request an answer concerning assistance in ammunition this evening if possible. All my forces have been mustered for the struggle against communism."

K. The rights of the occupying powers have been precisely laid down by international law. It ensues therefrom that you are conducting an illicit struggle Colonel Mihailovic. Besides, you have had ample opportunity for cooperation. It was not the German Wehrmacht that began shedding blood. This was entailed by the conduct of illicit armed struggle. We were faced with two enemies: Colonel Mihailovic and communism. Their terrorist action provoked reprisals. As an example of such abuse of confidence I shall cite the surprise attack on Gornji Milanovac. German soldiers were deceived and taken captive there under the pretext that they were threatened by the communists.

D. M. I know nothing of this incident. Not a single bullet has been fired on my orders.

K. I have no other orders from the Commander in Chief of Serbia than to ask Colonel Mihailovic whether he intends to surrender unconditionally or not.

D. M. I do not see why I have been invited to this meeting, if this is the only thing you had to inform me of. This message could have been transmitted through intermediaries.

K. I must insist upon an immediate answer.

D. M. Although I am a leader, I am still not alone. I cannot reach this decision without hearing the opinion of my subordinate commanders.

K. When can I expect an answer?

D. M. My comrades in arms are engaged in fighting the communists on a very broad front. Combat is fierce and entails many losses. I can give you an answer shortly after I receive it from the front.

K. If the answer is not in the affirmative, fighting against you will be continued.

A. M. We shall not fight the Germans even when such a fight is imposed on us.

K. I have personally experienced such a fight in Cacak.

A. M. We only wanted to keep our forces concentrated in one spot as we feared that the German troops would be evacuated therefrom one day. Then we would ail have come under the bloodstained knife of the communists.

D. M. I know that the Morava and Sava river valleys are important for the Germans and therefore assumed that the abandonment of certain towns and villages in western Serbia is impending as this region is devoid of interest for the German Wehrmacht. I therefore could not allow the communists to gain control of this area all the more so as there are few ideologically convinced communists in Serbia.

K. I have concluded my statement. When do you wish, Colonel, to return to the pre-arranged place?


D. M. Immediately.

A. M. The statement of Colonel Draza Mihailovic with which I fully agree, has sprang forth from the noblest Serbian heart. I would ask that his every word be trusted. We shall not be untrue to you. What you have said springs from the heart of every veteran soldier. Kindly inform the General thereof.

K. It is not in the soldierly tradition to spill blood unnecessarily. We are only striking against the bad elements.

A.M. Is anything known of the struggle we are currently waging against the communists?

(The rest of the document is completely illegible).


djurisic iron cross :

N.A microscopy T-501, roll 256, frames 509,867

Kostić,Boško N. 1949. Za istoriju naših dana:Odlomci iz zapisa za vreme okupacije.Lille,France:Jean Lausier.Reprint 1991 Belgrade: Nova Iskra,p.136

Parežanin,Ratko. 1971.Drugi svetski rat i Dimitrije V.Ljotić.Munich: Iskra,pp.485-86,497

Stefanović,Mladen. 1984. Zbor Dimitrija Ljotića, 1934-1945. Belgrade: Narodna knjiga,pp. 280,309
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby Bodul on 10 Feb 2010 22:56

I read on multiple ocassions about colaboration between those 2 quisling groups, ustasha and chetniks, but this piece of information is very interesting to read indeed!
Chetniks seemed to be more oportunistic oriented, trying to balance between germans, italians and ustashas.The biggest threat in their eyes seemed to be from partisans and they gladly cooperated together when oportunity arised to fight against them. But the reasons could be also much simpler, such is getting supplies of ammo from germans, so that chetniks can continue their fight against ustashas too or who ever they percieve as enemy at that time, as can be seen from the text.

Ty kiseli
Last edited by Bodul on 10 Feb 2010 23:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby kiseli on 10 Feb 2010 23:13

However, the sources for the photos are not provided, as you have observed. Therefore I ask Mr. Kiseli to add the source for the pictures in question.


Image
this is the picture from photo archive military museum ,belgrade (once upon a time). "chetnik commander priest momcilo djuic and italian officer bernardi" (dalmatia,1942)

Image
this picture is from slovenia, 1944 (ljotic, saracevic, ogrizovic , and djujic)

Image

this is from monte-negro, kolasin, pavle djurisic with german officer, 1943

all of these photos are from different web sites (without explanation)
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby Didov on 11 Feb 2010 15:49

I read on multiple ocassions about colaboration between those 2 quisling groups, ustasha and chetniks, but this piece of information is very interesting to read indeed!

Chetniks were not quislings simply because we (the Serbs) would of have two quislings groups and that would be Nedić groups (plus Ljotić forces and "chetniks" of Kosta Pećanac) and Draja Mihailovic. If Mihailovic collaborated with Germans in any way why was he hiding in the woods for 5 yrs? Quisling definition is very clear about this :
A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.

I really cant see how Mihailovic served occupying forces. I would really love to see a document or anything that will suggest he was fallowing the orders of Third Reich.
Chetniks seemed to be more oportunistic oriented, trying to balance between germans, italians and ustashas.

No balance have ever been made. We can, however debate about chetniks and Italians who, btw wanted to switch sides at the end of 1942. That plan became a reality in 1943. and trough Chetniks and their contacts with Americans. During WWII germans were very agressive against Sloven people in general but only we got 100 civilians for one German soldier and 50 for the wounded one. I believe Polish people got much more aggresive approach from the Nazis. I really doubt they proclaim that because they considered us as their allies. Chetniks were always in war with Ustasha regime. So much about balance.
The biggest threat in their eyes seemed to be from partisans and they gladly cooperated together when oportunity arised to fight against them.

Partisans started the civil war for ideological reasons. Mihailovic wanted to fight with partisans but they had other plans in mind.
But the reasons could be also much simpler, such is getting supplies of ammo from germans, so that chetniks can continue their fight against ustashas too or who ever they percieve as enemy at that time, as can be seen from the text.

Rules are very simple in guerilla : take what you can and give nothing in return. Italians learned that lesson much earlier than Nazis.
kiseli wrote:N.A microscopy T-501, roll 256, frames 509,867

Roll 256 gives the info on the year of 1943. not 1944.
T-501 is not giving any info about medals or anything like that.
Parežanin,Ratko. 1971.Drugi svetski rat i Dimitrije V.Ljotić.Munich: Iskra,pp.485-86,497

Nothing there either.
And please do not post that falsified document you posted on another forum where you got a life-ban for forging.
in 1941 yugoslav partizans and serbian chetniks have some agreement about joint action. in 1942 mihailovic "legalized" his chetniks detachments with nedic's forces (read germans), and put them under tactical nedic/german command

Please, next time you decide to put something like this on a live forum provide us with some documents or something. This is serious accusation and obviously it doesn't represent the fact. Can you please explain to us how it is possible that Mihailovic was part of German forces and yet he was fighting against them. Please share your thoughts.
Also you mentioned the negotiations in Divci but you forgot to mention that he never complied to any demands from the germans. Same nagotiations were held between Partisans and germans but lasted much longer and I woud never say that they collaborated with Germans. War is not a FPS game.
They (D.M forces) never cooperated with Germans. You also forgot to say that JVuO was under constant attacks from the Germans and it was about to fell apart. He wanted for his movement to survive at least one more year, since Brits were not sending him enough ammo and guns. Same situation continued in 1942. and British agents suggested him to get the guns from Italians. I will say that British government never allowed those transaction publicly. Draja was a intelligence officer in Yugoslav Royal Army so he understood perfectly what that means.
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby Didov on 11 Feb 2010 16:31

Image
this is from monte-negro, kolasin, pavle djurisic with german officer, 1943

Pavle Djurišić was arrested 14. May 1943. by the german forces and he was sent to German prison.
Image
Point?
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby kiseli on 11 Feb 2010 18:56

Roll 256 gives the info on the year of 1943. not 1944.
T-501 is not giving any info about medals or anything like that


re:
Records of German Field Commands: Rear Areas, Occupied Territories and Others. Microfilm Publication T501. 363 rolls. (GG 38, 57 and T176/roll 25)

sure. try harder......

Pavle Djurisic....
After the capitulation of Italy in 1943, Djurisic established closer ties with Dimitrije Ljotic, whose Serbian Volunteer Corps provided weapons, food, typewriters, and other supplies. Nedic promoted Djurisic to the rank of lieutenant-colonel and appointed him assistant commander of the Serbian Volunteer Corps, and, on October , 1944, Adolf Hitler awarded Djurisic the Iron Cross
Image

1943. ZAPOVEDNIKU NEMACKIH TRUPA U NEZAVISNOJ
DRŽAVI HRVATSKOJ O PREGOVORU PAVLA ĐURIŠIĆA
SA NEMAČKIM PREDSTAVNIKOM U KOLAŠINU


K.T.B.2 11.5. 1943.
23.30 časova
594
Depeša KB?
Th4

Zapovedniku u Hrvatskoj5 — Ia —
(Obaveštenje poslato od strane divizije »Brandenburg«) poslato depešom.
Sadržaj: Predlog oficira za vezu p.pukovnika Hajnca za angažovanje delova divizije »Brandenburg« po naređenju za-povednika u Hrvatskoj i operativnog oficira komande za Jugoistok.

1.) 6. četa 4. puka sa prednjim odredom 1. brdske divizije krenula je na zadatak i svojim delimičnim angažovanjem izvršila obezbeđenje Mateševa. U pogledu Kolašina, postavljeni zadatak je prevaziđen. Vidi niže pod br. 4.
2.) Ojačana 7. četa stigla je 11.5. u Andrijevicu.
Zadatak: delom snaga vrši izviđanja prema Bijelo Polje, gde se pretpostavlja da je Draža Mihailović. Ako se to ustanovi, onda zadatak isti kao što je pre bio u pogledu Kolašina.
3.) Ostatak II. bataljona 4. puka ostaje u Vučitrnu do pristizanja vozila i II. bataljona 1. puka.

1 Snimak dokumenta (pisan na mašini) u Arhivu VII, NAV-N-T-315r. 64, s. 665-6.
2 Dopisano rukom — Ratni dnevnik (Kriegstagebuch).
3 Neka interna oznaka telegrafske službe.
4 Paraf, napisan rukom.
5 Odnosi se na Rudolfa Litersa.


4.) 10.5. u Kolašinu, gde se pogrešno mislilo da je glavni stan Draže Mihailovića, pregovarao sam sa četničkim vođom Đurišićem.
Rezultat ovih razgovora:
a) Đurišićevi četnici su ustvari od Italijana legalizirane jedinice za odbranu zavičajnih mesta (Heimatwehr) na području Crne Gore. Jačina: 2—3.000 pušaka.
b) Nastrojeni su antikomunistički, njihova parola je mir i red.
c) Draža Mihailović od kraja 1942 nije više u Kolašinu (Draža Mihailović je napustio Lipovo kod Kolašina 20. aprila 1943., a 12. maja je prešao Lim na putu za Ravnu goru). Đurišićevi četnici nisu njegove pristalice jer njegova politika zbog nadmoćnosti i strogosti Nemaca vodi istrebljenju najboljih ljudi.
d) Početkom maja Đurišić je bio kod guvernera Crne Gore i zamolio ga da pozove nemačke trupe u Crnu Goru. Italijani se uvek povlače pred Titom, četnici su vezani za svoja mesta, brane samo rodni kraj, nemaju jedinstveno rukovodstvo.
e) Đurišić je nazvao Dražu Mihailovića nestalnim lutajućim fantastom koga je propaganda uzdigla u nebesa i precenila. Jedini ozbiljni protivnik je Tito.
f) Protiv Tita Đurišić stavlja na raspolaganje četničku miliciju. Po njegovim recima, njegovi ljudi su i suviše dugo vojnici, odvikavaju se od rada, treba da se vrate svom poslu i svojoj porodici. Posle uništenja Tita garantuje razoružanje četnika. Sa jednim delom svoga ljudstva spreman je, kako on kaže, da se pod nemačkim rukovodstvom bori na Istoku protiv komunista, Nemački Vermaht je, kaže, jedina instanca reda. Kaže da su sve njihove porodice u selima koja drže Nemci, što je sigurna garantija da ne igraju dvostruku igru. Navodno, crnogorski čovek je srastao s oružjem, prisilno i nepotrebno razoruža van je smatrao bi kao obeščašćenje u očima roda i plemena. Razoružan čovek izmiče ispod svoje sopstvene kontrole, postaje ilegalac.
g) Utisak o Đurišiću: pametan i trezven čovek sa autoritetom i smislom za realnost. Boriće se s nama zejedno do konačnog Titovog uništenja, a potom će stajati lojalno uz Nemce, ukoliko se prema njemu ne napravi neka psihološka pogreška.
h) Utisak o njegovoj miliciji: ratnici koji su vezani za svoj rodni kraj, brđani koji vole slobodu, primitivni, polažu sve svoje nade u Nemačku. Moguće ih je angažovati protiv Tita, ali u zajednici sa nemačkim trupama, a posebno u zajednici sa jedinicama »Brandenburg«.
i) Procena situacije: Prema Đurišiću, namere crvenih su:
Titovo snabdevanje na prostoriji Berane — Kolašin, zadobijanje puta uz jadransku obalu, marš prema jadranskoj obali, polaganje nade u englesku pomoć.
k) Moj predlog, takođe i komandi 1. brdske divizije: angažovati legalne četnike u Crnoj Gori za čitavo vreme dok Tito ne bude uništen. Trebalo bi da mi legalizujemo Đurišića i da pomoću njega razoružamo ilegalne četnike. Posle Titovog uništenja mogli bismo legalizovati slabu Đurišićevu miliciju.
5.) Siri predlog za angažovanje delova »Brandenburg«, ujedno i predlog 1. brdskoj diviziji: dati težište na otkrivanje i uništenje Tita lično, kao i njegovog štaba.
6.) Predlog za angažovanje nakon završetka operacije »Svarc«: 4 bataljona »Brandenburg«, koji će sredinom juna biti slobodni, prebaciti na prostorije gde je verovatno iskrcavanje i tamo ih imati pripravne za upotrebu. Prostorija oko Trsta. Prostorija u zahvatu dalmatinske obale. Prostorija oko Ja-njine (Janina) i prostorija Trakija — Dodekanez. Zadatak: pripremiti »mali rat«, ne davati frontalan otpor invazionom talasu, voditi »mali rat« u pozadini. Prilikom nemačkog protivnapada dejstvovati u leđa neprijatelja. Bataljoni koji budu na prostoriji Trsta i Dalmacije trebalo bi da budu spremni za brzo prebacivanje u Italiju, ako bi tamo bilo težište invazije.
7.) Molm da ove predloge prosledite operativnom odelenju komande za Jugoistok.
Hajnc7, s.r. potpukovnik
Dodatni tekst komandanta 1. brdske divizije:
Slažem se sa predlogom iznetim u pasusu pod br. 5. Navodi dati u pasusu pod br. 4 poklapaju se, uopšte uzev, sa zapažanjima i izveštajima divizije. I dalje pažljivo proučavamo situaciju u tom pogledu, i to u smislu kako je to naveo potpukovnik Hajnc. U konkretnoj situaciji moguće je, ako se pođe putem predloga potpukovnika Hajnca, postići brzo i bezbolno razoružavanje četnika, kao i rasturanje njihove organizacije8.
Divizija moli za brzu konačnu odluku naročito po pasusima pod br. 4 f i 4 k, da bi na taj način bila u mogućnosti da blagovremeno preduzme i sprovede odgovarajuće mere.
fon Stetner9 Ia br. 584/43, poverlj. komanda
10
7 Heinz.
8 Vidi u ovom prilogu dok. br. 4.
' Valter (Walter Stetner von Grabenhofen), komandant nemačke 1. brdske divizije.
lu Sledi nekoliko nečitkih reci, dopisanih rukom.


for english speakers: document about negotiations between chetnik commander pavle djurisic and german l.colonel heintz
kiseli
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Re: Chetniks collaborating with Axis?

Postby G. Trifkovic on 11 Feb 2010 19:41

djurisic iron cross :

N.A microscopy T-501, roll 256, frames 509,867


Could you quote the document in some length or post the scan of it? Is decorating Djurisic mentioned in some official report?

Cheers,

Gaius
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Re: Chetnicks and Ustaša colaboration

Postby kiseli on 11 Feb 2010 20:02

regarding connection nedic- mihailovic.....

Image
from :Tomashevich: The Chetniks, page 200

Image
from:Wheeler: Britain and the War for Yugoslavia,1940-1943, page 105

MESSAGE FROM D. MIHAILOVIC TO THE NEDIC GOVERNMENT AND GERMANS

NAW
Mf. T — 120
R 200, 153576-577
Belgrade, March 31, 1942
Arrival: Telegram
No. 452 of March 31, 1942 Seer. Ch. V. 7.20 p.m.
Re telegrams No. 114* of January 29 and No. 286* of March 6 (*filed with Pol IV).
2) It has not so far been possible to get hold of Colonel Mihailovic in person.2 He too appears either unwilling or unable to undertake any action on. Serbian territory for the time being. A few days ago, he informed the Nedic government through an emissary that he agrees to the publication of the following:
1. That he has no intention of fighting against the Germans.
2. That will not take any action against the Nedic gov¬ernment.
3. That be is striving for the maintenance of peace and order in the country.
4. That he has appealed to the people to enlist in the fight against the communists.
The middleman was informed that unconditional submission is the sole alternative for Mihailovic.
Benzler
1 The introductory part contains a summary assessment of
the general situation on the "Serbian insurgent area".
2 According to the German original, although Mihailovic
was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General already at the
beginning of December 1941.

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Re: Chetniks collaborating with Axis?

Postby Didov on 12 Feb 2010 01:14

kiseli wrote:Records of German Field Commands: Rear Areas, Occupied Territories and Others. Microfilm Publication T501. 363 rolls. (GG 38, 57 and T176/roll 25)
sure. try harder......

look Kiseli, there is no iron cross represented to him publicly nor secretly. I will try to help you out about Djurisic and will prove it to you that he did not nor his combatants ever struck deal with Germans. He, however struck a deal with Ustasha regime. I will also point out that non of his commanders knew about this deal and if they did he would be prosecuted and shot. This last venture cost him his life and 20.000 chetniks and their families.
This all is happening in 1945. I will remind the readers that in 1943. Pavle Djurisic was arrested 2 times by the germans and was sent to German prison from where he escaped and recaptured in Hungary. He was released because Nedic and Neubaher insisted him to be released. Pavle Djurisic promised them that he will gather his chetniks and will put them under command of Dimitrije Ljotic.
In order to prove the people that Pavle Dj. is loayal to the Trhird Reich they (Nedic-Ljotic) actually invented the iron cross Kiseli is talking about. Pavle Djurisic never got under Nedic nor German command like the chetniks of Dimitrije Ljotic and Kosta Pecanac.
February 14. 1945. Djurišić meet with Draja Mihailovic and represented him his plan to transfer all his men and their families to Slovenia (alltogether 22.000 chetniks and civilians). Mihailovic disagreed with that plan representing him the plan of another uprising in Serbia. Djurisic already make up his mind. Before he even decided to go to Slovenia Pavle met with his cousin Sekula Drljevic ( a traitor and Pavelic pupet) who promised him free passage rough NDH territory. Non of his commanders knew about this agreement. In return he (Pavle) should recognize Montenegro as a part of NDH. He agreed to that. They suppouse to cross the river Vrbas and meet with Drljevic there. At the moment they crossed the bridge 400 of his chetniks were dissarmed by Ustashas.
When they were told to go toward Ustashas , his captain (Milorad Popovic) told him: Pavle, I'm an officer and I will do what you ask me to do but this is one way street. You are sending us to certain death. - (One of his two brothers survived to tell the story. )
Ustasha attacked them with 5 tenks and pushed them to partisan teritorry. Partisans have used all their guns and forced them to fight with Ustasha again. Only few of those 22.000 chetniks and civilians survived. Officers were sent to Jasenovac and rest of them to other concentration camps.

If he, Djurisic was a german collaborator he would have a free pass to Slovenia. Since he wasn't he was sent to Jasenovac where he died with the rest of his men. Pavle Djurisic broke all protocols of military doctrine. He stuck a deal with Drljevic and NDH without knowledge of his spreme commander and he did not tell about this agreement to his commanders. He is the only bad spot in JVuO history and will be remembered as a traitor.
What Kiseli and friends are trieing to prove is that Draja Mihailovic was a quislig like Pavelic and the rest of the gang. That wasnt true. Kiseli cant even compare Nedic with Pavelic.
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