Greatest Polish Victories

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michael mills
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#32

Post by michael mills » 07 Dec 2010, 01:47

The war actually continued to 1618 / 1619 not to 1612 and ended in huge territorial gains for Poland-Lithuania:
The self-pitying Polish chauvinists whine and whine about the fact that their country was under Russian rule for one hundred years, from 1815 to 1915 (when the Russians were driven out by Germans and Austrians).

Yet they crow about the conquest of Russian lands by the aggressive and ruthless Polish nobility, which led to a centuries-long oppression of Ukrainian and Belorussian peasants.

Do these guys live in the modern world? Are they feckless youths fantasising about playing soldiers?

One gang of medieval thugs beating another has about as much significance as one gang of Mexican narco-traffickers wiping out a rival gang. For the ordinary people at the mercy of these gangs of violent thugs, whether in past centuries or in our own day, it matters not one whit which of their oppressors wins; they remain oppressed.


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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#33

Post by michael mills » 07 Dec 2010, 01:57

The Battle of Lubieszow on 17 April 1577 was the cumulation of a 2 year war between the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania and the City of Gdansk. .A Polish army of 1000 infantry and 1300 cavalry under command of hetman Jan Zborowski, faced a Gdansk army of 3100 landsknechts, 400 mercenary reiter cavalry, 400 city cavalry, 6000-8000 Gdansk militia, in total 10-12 thousand soldiers under the command of Hans Winckelburg von Kölln. Gdansk losses amounted to 4400 dead, while the Crown army lost 60 killed, 127 wounded.
What is there to celebrate about the ruthless and reactionary Polish nobility crushing the citizens of a trading city, who were seeking the freedom to devcelop socially and economically?

One hundred years previously, the citizens of Danzig, along with those of other Prussian cities and towns, had revolted against the oppressive rule of the Teutonic Knights, and had sought the protection of the Polish Crown. Now, after Royal Prussia had lost its autonomy in 1569, the citizens of Danzig had found that the rule of the Polish nobility was just as oppressive as that of the Teutonic Knights.

A victory for a gang of militaristic thugs which boastfully called itself "natio polonica", but hardly a great day for human progress.

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Polar bear
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#34

Post by Polar bear » 07 Dec 2010, 10:33

hi,

one of the greatest Polish victories - and without much bloodshed (!) - was the cracking of the ENIGMA code by Polish mathematicians contributing decisively to the avoidance of merchant ship losses in the Battle of the Atlantic and eventually the Allied victory in WW II

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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henryk
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#35

Post by henryk » 07 Dec 2010, 22:16

michael mills wrote:
The Battle of Lubieszow on 17 April 1577 was the cumulation of a 2 year war between the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania and the City of Gdansk. .A Polish army of 1000 infantry and 1300 cavalry under command of hetman Jan Zborowski, faced a Gdansk army of 3100 landsknechts, 400 mercenary reiter cavalry, 400 city cavalry, 6000-8000 Gdansk militia, in total 10-12 thousand soldiers under the command of Hans Winckelburg von Kölln. Gdansk losses amounted to 4400 dead, while the Crown army lost 60 killed, 127 wounded.
What is there to celebrate about the ruthless and reactionary Polish nobility crushing the citizens of a trading city, who were seeking the freedom to devcelop socially and economically?

One hundred years previously, the citizens of Danzig, along with those of other Prussian cities and towns, had revolted against the oppressive rule of the Teutonic Knights, and had sought the protection of the Polish Crown. Now, after Royal Prussia had lost its autonomy in 1569, the citizens of Danzig had found that the rule of the Polish nobility was just as oppressive as that of the Teutonic Knights.

A victory for a gang of militaristic thugs which boastfully called itself "natio polonica", but hardly a great day for human progress.
No country can tolerate rebellion and treason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig_Rebellion
The rebellion of the city of Danzig (Gdańsk) in 1570s against the free election and rule of Polish King and Grand Duke of Lithuania Stephen Báthory began on 12 December 1575[1] and ended on 16 December 1577.[2] With neither side being able to defeat the other militarily, a compromise was reached, with economic as well as religious[3] privileges of the city being restored and recognized, in return for a large reparation and recognition of Bathory as the king.
On 20 July 1570, the Polish-Lithuanian king Sigismund II Augustus introduced Karnkowski Statutes, which partly reduced Danzig's special privileges[4][5] granted by earlier Polish kings after the Prussian Confederation cities recognized their rule in 1454.

In 1572, the throne of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was vacated when King Sigismund Augustus died without an heir and Henry III of France after a brief period as a Polish king returned to France. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was an elective monarchy and (after the Union of Lublin in 1569) in close union with Lithuania, meaning that Polish nobility (szlachta) could vote on who would become the next king. Cities had no vote; Danzig however was invited by primate of Poland and interrex Jakub Uchański to cast a vote but declined to send a representative.[6] Members of the Senate (including most of the Polish episcopate led by Jakub Uchański) decided to elect Emperor Maximilian, against the will of majority of nobility, which during the free election voted for Anna Jagiello (the last representative of the former Polish-Lithuanian Jagiellon dynasty) and Stephen Báthory as her husband and de facto King. This led to a some unrest in Poland.

Danzig, whose economic privileges were reduced by the Karnkowski Statutes, wanted to use the situation to regain its preferential position within the Polish Crown. The town of Danzig also preferred Maximilian, [7] who looked more likely to support towns' economic privileges, and who could also threaten serious economic repercussions (boycott by the Habsburgs). Thus the Hanseatic League city, encouraged by its immense wealth and almost impregnable fortifications, as well as by the secret support of Denmark[8] and Emperor Maximilian, had supported the latter's election.
On 1 May 1576 Stefan Bathory married King Anna Jagiello and was crowned by Stanisław Karnkowski as King of Poland. Jakub Uchański and nuncio Wincenty Laureo were still respecting Maximillian as a King, but soon they and others accepted will of majority. When Stefan sweared in all of existing rights of Prussia Royale and Prussia Ducale,[9] and was recognized as a rightful ruler,[10] one city—Danzig—refused to do it and was still respecting Maximillian as King of Poland.[11]

Danzig refused to recognize Bathory's authority, and the tensions grew as rioters looted and burned down an abbey in Oliwa.[7] The abbey belonged to the bishop of Kujawy, Stanisław Karnkowski, under whose jurisdiction was the whole Polish Pommerania. The Sejm (parliament) of the Commonwealth did not approve higher taxes for the war. It has however approved a banicja (form of political exile and excommunication), confiscation of Danzig property, arrest of its citizens, commercial blockade and rerouting of the important trade via the port of Elbląg (which however was immediately blockaded by Denmark's navy).[12][13]

Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#36

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 16 Feb 2011, 16:52

Battle of Raclawice in 1794 (from a pre-war Polish movie "Kosciuszko pod Raclawicami" from 1938):



What's interesting this movie is originally with English subtitles - here is part 1 (of 9):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQPoxSijF5E



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Polar bear
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#38

Post by Polar bear » 21 Feb 2011, 11:52

hello,
henryk wrote: No country can tolerate rebellion and treason.
IMO one should be extremely careful with a simple statement like that .. it may be misused too easily.

It may well be that it was spoken
- in London in 1774 after the news of Lexington and Concord and in many other colonial uprisings
- in Berlin in 1904/05, with respect to uprisings in South-West and East Africa
- in Paris, in 1789 by the king, in 1808 by Napoleon, concerning Spain, and in 1958 concerning news from Algiers
- by any dictator you can imagine (Stalin, Hitler, ...)

what if ... a suppressed minority just tries to enforce her rights after many vain protests ?

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#39

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 21 Feb 2011, 13:36

- in London in 1774 after the news of Lexington and Concord and in many other colonial uprisings
- in Berlin in 1904/05, with respect to uprisings in South-West and East Africa
in 1808 by Napoleon, concerning Spain, and in 1958 concerning news from Algiers
Gdansk was a Polish overseas colony?

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Polar bear
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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#40

Post by Polar bear » 21 Feb 2011, 15:15

hello, Domen,

surely not overseas ...

I don´t know whether the people of Danzig/Gdansk considered their town to be part of Poland at that time.

but IMO you pick on examples (I said "it may be ...") and do not answer to the main idea (first and last line).

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#41

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 21 Feb 2011, 16:45

Michael Mills a bit misinterpreated the reason why Gdansk revolted.

It was not because of any "ruthless and reactionary Polish nobility crushing its citizens".

Gdansk revolted, because Stefan Batory (instead of Maximilian II Habsburg) became the king of Poland (or rather husband of queen Anna Jagiellonka). Stefan Batory was supported by most of Polish noble deputies (Seym).

Most of citizens of Gdansk, on the other hand - just like majority of the Polish Senate (under the presidency of interrex primate Jakub Uchański) - would like to see Maximilian Habsburg on the Polish throne.

So there was an internal conflict between the followers of Batory and Habsburg, rather than conflict of Gdansk vs the rest of Poland. Gdansk was only one of many parties in Poland, that supported Maximilian.

Until the end of 1576 followers of Maximilian were all pacified, except for Gdansk. And Gdansk was so stubborn, that even after all other followers of Batory were defeated, it didn't want to recognize Batory as the Polish king.

Gdansk supported Maximilian Habsburg for the Polish throne mainly because it had vital economic interests in the Netherlands, which were also under the rule of Habsburgs at that time. In case of Gdansk supporting Batory, influential Habsburgs could implement economic repressions against Gdansk.

Batory decided to force Gdansk to obedience by force, but the supposedly "ruthless nobility" (as Michael called them) was against any violent solutions and refused to allow Batory to collect taxes for his military expedition.

Anyway, Batory managed to gather a rather small but well-trained army and defeated much larger enemy forces at Lubieszow. The subsequent siege, although didn't lead to capture Gdansk, forced the city to negotiations.

Meanwhile Russian Tsar Ivan IV, taking advantage of this conflict, invaded Polish Livonia in 1577.

Fortunately the subsequent Polish-Russian war over Livonia (1577 - 1582) resulted in Polish victory.

The battle of Lubieszow is a great military victory not because of political events around it (which were rather unfavorable for Poland - because that internal conflict gave Russians the opportunity to invade Livonia), but because an army of 730 infantry and 1200 cavalry (mainly famous Winged Hussars) achieved a crushing victory over an army of 3100 infantry, 800 cavalry and ca. 8000 militia with minimal casualties (60 killed, 127 wounded) for the victors.

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#42

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 09 May 2011, 00:11

Someone posted the list of Polish victories involving - apart from other formations - Winged Hussars:

http://www.hussar.com.pl/english-polish ... ar-hussars
Major victories were gained at:

Orsza 1514, over the Russian / Muscovite army (Moscow)
Obertyn 1531, over Moldavian army
Cutrea de Argesz 1600, over Wallachian army
Kokenhausen 1601, over Swedish army
Kircholm (Salaspils) 1605, over Swedish army
Kłuszyn (Klushino) 1610, over Russian-Swedish army
Chocim 1621, over Turkish army
Trzciana 1629, over Swedish army
Martynów 1624, over Tatar army
Ochmatów 1644, over Tatar army
Chocim 1673, over Turkish army
Lviv 1675, over Turkish army
Vienna 1683, over Turkish army

and

Klecko 1506 against Moscow,
Czerniowce 1506 against Moldavia,
Orsza 1508 against Moscow,
Chocim 1509 against Moldavia,
Wiśniowiec 1512 against Tatars,
Pasłęk 1520 against Teutonic Knights,
Olszanica 1527 against Tatars,
Gwoźdźec 1531 against Moscow,
Czaśniki 1564 against Moscow,
Ozieryszcze 1564 against Moscow,
Pola Iwańskie 1567 against Moscow,
Susza 1567 against Moscow,
Lubieszów 1577 against Gdansk (Danzig),
Toropiec 1580 against Moscow,
Biała 1581 against Moscow,
Stara Russa 1581 against Moscow,
Byczyna 1588 against Germans,
Cecora 1595 against Tatars,
Sołonica 1596 against Cossacks,
Bukowa 1600 against Moldavia,
Karkusen 1600 against Swedes,
Kiesia (Cesis) 1601 against Swedes,
Rewel 1602 against Swedes,
Dorpat 1603 against Swedes,
Rakwere 1603 against Swedes,
Biały Kamień 1604 against Swedes,
Udycz 1606 against Tatars,
Bołchów 1608 against Moscow,
Chodynka 1608 against Moscow,
Rachmanowiec 1608 against Moscow,
Parnawa 1609 against Swedes,
Gawia 1609 against Swedes,
Carowo Zajmiszcze 1610 against Moscow,
Dniestr 1616 against Moldavia,
Bandery 1616 against Moldavia,
Kropimojza 1621 against Swedes,
Poswol 1625 against Swedes,
Listenhoff 1625 against Swedes,
Jezioro Kurukowskie 1625 against Cossacks,
Biała Cerkiew 1626 against Tatars,
Hamersztyn 1627 against Germans,
Tczew 1627 against Swedes,
Kamieniec Podolski 1633 against Turks,
Kumejki 1637 against Cossacks,
Konstantynów 1648 against Cossacks,
Łojów 1649 against Cossacks,
Zbaraż 1649 against Cossacks,
Beresteczko 1651 against Cossacks,
Łojów 1651 against Cossacks,
Szkłów 1654 against Moscow,
Ochmatów 1655 against Moscow,
Warka 1656 against Swedes,
Prostki 1656 against Swedes,
Połonka 1660 against Moscow,
Lubar 1660 against Moscow,
Słobodyszcze 1660 against Cossacks,
Cudnów 1660 against Moscow,
Kuczliki 1661 against Moscow,
Podhajce 1667 against Tatars,
Niemirów 1672 against Tatars,
Komarno 1672 against Tatars,
Petranka 1672 against Tatars,
Żórawno 1676 against Turks,
Parkany 1683 against Turks
Bojan 1685 against Moldavia
Podhajce 1698 against Tatars,

and many more…
I would also add the battle of Kalisz in 1706 (against Swedes) as the last major victory involving Husaria.

Husaria in the battle of Kalisz 1706 (unknown painter):

Image

Husaria in the battle of Orsza 1514 - at that time they still fought as light cavalry:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... usaria.JPG

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#43

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 02 Oct 2011, 10:42

Polish-Lithuanian Winged Hussars used to win battles even against multiple-times stronger enemies.

The victory against 14-times stronger odds was at Liubar-Chudniv in 1660 when 2 banners of Hussaria in strength of 250 horses - without any support from any other formation of the Polish army - defeated the advance-guard of the Russian army in strength of 3500 soldiers (1000 cavalry and 2500 infantry):

"(...) A banner of Hussars under Wladyslaw Wilczkowski (ca. 125 horses), charges against a regiment of Russian Cuirassiers (ca. 1000 horses). Wilczkowski begins the attack on his own initiative. Hussars sustain the fire of multiple carbine salvos and strike into the enemy. After breaking lances, Hussars take their broadswords... The fight is fierce. Armors and huge numerical superiority protect the Cuirassiers for some time. Seeing the lone fight of Wilczkowski's Hussars, another banner under command of Stanislaw Wyzycki (further 125 horses) launches an attack. Russians do not sustain the second impact. Cuirassiers flee from the battlefield. They spread confusion in ranks of the infantry regiment standing behind them (ca. 2500 Cossacks). Both banners of Hussaria, "on the necks" of the escaping Cuirassiers, charge into infantry and literally smash it to the ground.
This is how on 26.09.1660 the advance-guard of the Russian-Cossack army was defeated on the field between Liubar and Chudniv. Describing those events Leszczynski comments:

"There all the companions, filled with love to their homeland, went to battle with great joy. (...) You have earned eternal fame, Wilczkowski.""

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#44

Post by michael mills » 09 Oct 2011, 05:37

I see the Polish chauvinist juveniles are still playing soldiers.

A military victory by a gang of Polish aristocratic oppressors over a gang of Muscovite aristocratic oppressors was hardly a victory for the Polish people, the great majority of which consisted of downtrodden peasants exploited by their feudal lords.

To the Polish peasantry it hardly mattered whether a battle was won by the Polish aristocratic gang or the Muscovite aristocratic gang; either way they remained oppressed and exploited.

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Re: Greatest Polish Victories

#45

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 09 Oct 2011, 16:50

I see the Australian xenophobic old farts are still trolling around on this forum.

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