The Knights Templar

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ohrdruf
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#16

Post by ohrdruf » 19 Jun 2004, 17:18

Kurt Steiner

I am answering the points you make which refer to assertions of mine.

(1) The Templars had a series of forts in Syria which adjoins modern Irak.

(2) Montsegur surrendered 15 March 1244. For some reason not well understood, the Cathars bargained to be allowed to surrender on this day.

(3) It is known that the Templar Fleet sailed from La Rochelle. It is known that many Templars arrived in Scotland, Arab countries and Teneriffe. There is no evidence whatever that Templars sailed for, or reached, North America. You have obviously given the correspondence only a cursory examination. This thread begins with mention of a fort of claimed Templar origin near San Antonio del Oeste, Argentina and currently under examination by Spanish experts. No mention is made of this fort in any historical text because it has only recently been uncovered.


The suggested connections between Nazis and Templars is precisely that, suggested. Nobody postulated it as history.


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DrG
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#17

Post by DrG » 19 Jun 2004, 18:58

Kurt_Steiner wrote:
Himmler considered himself the incarnate of King Heinrich, a medieval German monarch. Did this King Heinrich have any connections with the Templars?
Which Heinrich? The 5th, the 6th?
Henry I the Fowler, duke of Saxony and king of Germany, who died in the year 936... about a couple of centuries before the foundation of the Templars. ;)


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Kurt_Steiner
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#18

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 19 Jun 2004, 18:58

Ohrdruf
(1) The Templars had a series of forts in Syria which adjoins modern Irak.
True. Gaston, Roissel Ruad, Chatel Blanc, Arima, for instace. But all of them near the coastline. Not so far that they could enter in Irak. It's a long way to Irak, methinks.
(2) Montsegur surrendered 15 March 1244. For some reason not well understood, the Cathars bargained to be allowed to surrender on this day.
Some people suggest that this was due to the fact that the Cathars had some kind of celebration in those days. Technically, Montségur surrendered March, 1st, 1244, but the Cathars asked to be given 15 days, after which they would surrender the castle. Anyway, thank you for making me see my mistake.
It is known that the Templar Fleet sailed from La Rochelle
Yes.
It is known that many Templars arrived in Scotland
Yes
[It is known that many Templars arrived to] Arab countries and Teneriffe.
Really? Not surprising the Arab election, as they were quite familiar with the area. About Tenerife, well, it sounds a bit too exotic, I mean fantastic, to me. Excuse me for being so esceptical.
There is no evidence whatever that Templars sailed for, or reached, North America.
Yes, There is no evidence. However, that does not stop some people to claiming that fact.

Thank you for your answer, Ohrdruf.

Best regards

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Kurt_Steiner
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#19

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 19 Jun 2004, 19:05

DrG wrote:
Henry I the Fowler, duke of Saxony and king of Germany, who died in the year 936... about a couple of centuries before the foundation of the Templars.
Well, we can forget the treue Heini for a while... :P

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#20

Post by ohrdruf » 21 Jun 2004, 18:05

Dear Kurt Steiner

There may be innumerable reasons why the German Templars' route home to Germany passed through southern Irak, and of these we are not informed. After all, the event happened 760 years ago.

The suggestion of Teneriffe arises by reason of the statuette of the Virgin at Candelaria which is adorned with a robe having along its hem a message in code. This message reads: VIRGEN MARIA INFINITA, REINA TEMPORAL. This can be interpreted as a proclamation that the Virgin Mary is God and also our temporal queen. No organisation of antiquity other than the Templars is known to have been quite so devoted to the idea of Supreme Femininity, and this may have been one of the reasons which led to the forcible dissolution of the Order by Clement V.

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Kurt_Steiner
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#21

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 21 Jun 2004, 18:55

ohrdruf wrote:
The suggestion of Teneriffe arises by reason of the statuette of the Virgin at Candelaria which is adorned with a robe having along its hem a message in code. This message reads: VIRGEN MARIA INFINITA, REINA TEMPORAL. This can be interpreted as a proclamation that the Virgin Mary is God and also our temporal queen. No organisation of antiquity other than the Templars is known to have been quite so devoted to the idea of Supreme Femininity, and this may have been one of the reasons which led to the forcible dissolution of the Order by Clement V.
That sounds interesting, really. Let me do some research about it.

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Karl
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#22

Post by Karl » 22 Jun 2004, 02:12

ohrdruf wrote:No organisation of antiquity other than the Templars is known to have been quite so devoted to the idea of Supreme Femininity,
This is quite a statement. Do you have some good sources backing this up?

and this may have been one of the reasons which led to the forcible dissolution of the Order by Clement V.
It was a pact between a King, a pope and the devil.

'All for the love of money...'

Regards.

ChristopherPerrien
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#23

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 22 Jun 2004, 02:36

I seriously suggest the book "Born in Blood" for its information on the history of the Knights Templar and this organization's subsequent tranformation into "Freemasonry".

Kephra
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#24

Post by Kephra » 22 Jun 2004, 11:19

Karl wrote: This is quite a statement. Do you have some good sources backing this up?
I too would really like to see some. But I think, that's the 'nature' of the mater-I-Al -that you will not find good sources to- back this up!

Image

She is older, than the soil on which we walk
She is told, to decline but still prevails
She is beauty, as the wolves that howl at dark

She is sun and moon, in perfect hamony
She is heathen virtue, and all that which is true
I love myself, and you're in love with you

She is white as pure, while the fallen snow is black
She drunken love, the tempting elixir
She is love for us, and those who truly see

She is order, and the balance after strife
She's betrothed, the bride ov perfect light
She is stillness just as well, as burning might

She is ritual, and peace in stalwart night
She is howling, for the right of lively pride
She is exellence, and goddess of the light

She is beauty, as the wolves that howl at dawn
She is glory, in this place of sterling yearn
Where the truth prevails, and thirteen candles burn

She is blossom, and the bloom for who he bleeds
She is like the stars, so luminous and bright
She is like the night, a veil of raven light

She is beauty, as the wolves we grey and proud
She's the axis, from which the world resides
She's indulgence, and righteous human pride

She is siege and battle, the endless destiny
She is swords, gentle touch of victory
I love myself, and you're in love with me

She is liberty, and insight in completion
She is splendor, and the force of heresy
She is love, we are wolves of the elite


Heil! Ischtar-Ostara Shakti-Omnipotencia Teutonica-Anima.
------------------
Grüße! :)
Kephra

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#25

Post by Mikko H. » 23 Jun 2004, 15:44

I seriously suggest the book "Born in Blood" for its information on the history of the Knights Templar and this organization's subsequent tranformation into "Freemasonry".
All serious sources (at least which I've read) state that the Templar-Freemasonry connection is just one of those myths the newly founded Freemasons cooked up in the 18th century to create a long and mysterious history for them.

ohrdruf
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#26

Post by ohrdruf » 23 Jun 2004, 21:02

Kephra and Karl

Will supply tomorrow the indication you request in response to your question regarding Divine Femininity in relation to the Templars.

What dissenting contributors must remember is that whereas the Templar Order was outwardly orthodox, most evidence for its true aims as ever existed would have been eliminated by the Inquisition.
I think it really depends on one's religious outlook. Those of a broadly judeo-christian upbringing will tend toward the point of view, as do most academics, that it was the Templar riches that led to their destruction, whereas pagans/mystics and so forth incline strongly towards the idea of a secret religious doctrine. This finds some support in the material I am posting tomorrow.

Ohrdruf

Karl
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#27

Post by Karl » 24 Jun 2004, 04:23

ohrdruf wrote:What dissenting contributors must remember is that whereas the Templar Order was outwardly orthodox, most evidence for its true aims as ever existed would have been eliminated by the Inquisition.
What? Why would they do that?

ChristopherPerrien
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#28

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 24 Jun 2004, 13:59

Mikko H. wrote:
I seriously suggest the book "Born in Blood" for its information on the history of the Knights Templar and this organization's subsequent tranformation into "Freemasonry".
All serious sources (at least which I've read) state that the Templar-Freemasonry connection is just one of those myths the newly founded Freemasons cooked up in the 18th century to create a long and mysterious history for them.
Well I suggest you read that book , it is too well researched and has way too many interconnected facts to be anything else than the TRUTH.

I read it as a skeptic, and I don't think you can debunk that book as not being historical fact. Really a tight piece of work.

Actually most Masons despise this idea because it is totally counter to everything they learned as to the why they do many of their rituals and more importantly it makes their belief that they had anything to do with "Solomon's temple" a LIE. Which it is.

ohrdruf
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#29

Post by ohrdruf » 24 Jun 2004, 15:54

The Knights Templar Order was founded in about 1118 by Cistercian leader St Bernard of Clairvaux.

In drafting the constitution for the Knights Templar Order in 1128, St Bernard specifically inserted a requirement for the obedience of Castle Bethany. Pope Gregory I (590-604) and St Bernard both confirmed that Mary of Bethany was synonymous with Mary Magdalene. All great cathedrals of Europe of wholly Cistercian-Templar instigation were dedicated to Mary Magdalene.

Why should an order of knighthood be required to swear obedience to a reformed prostitute who died a thousand years earlier? What instructions did she leave that were to be obeyed? The significance of Mary Magdalene is not understood by any academic historian nor orthodox cleric. To dismiss the requirement as an irrelavance, as they all do, has originated all the misunderstandings which have existed ever since. The aura of mystery surrounding the Templars, and their true aims, revolves around this single point of historical fact.


St Bernard of Clairvaux and his closest friend, Archbishop St Malachy of Ulster, stated openly that they were Chaldean, which is another way of admitting that they initiated Druids.

If we wish to know all about Nazism, we look to its founder, Adolf Hitler. If we wish to know about Templarism, we look likewise to its founder, St Bernard of Clairvaux. In the same way that Adolf Hitler, an adept of the National Socialist religion, converted the German Workers' Party into the National Socialist German Workers Party, so did St Bernard of Clairvaux convert a mounted militia in Palestine into an Order of Knighthood based on the doctrine of Chaldean precursors.

St Bernard was a Druid. The Druids worshipped God as the Universal Mother. Their doctrine was reincarnation and no heaven, and their ultimate goal, as was that of Nazism, was to advance humanity by creating the cerebral Superman.

The Druids worshipped the image of Black Annis, the duality of the Earth goddess Dana. In the early Middle Ages this worship was transformed into the cult of the Black Virgin introduced by St Bernard of Clairvaux who claimed to have been breast-fed by a "Virgen Lactens" because his mother had no milk. There are several old paintings of this splendid event.

The Black Virgin or Madonna had her tradition in earlier goddesses but in Templar times represented Mary Magdalene "who knew the All" and "transmitted the true secret of Jesus". The blackness of the Madonna signifies that She existed in the darkness of Chaos before She created the world.

As in Nazism, the Templars' ultimate goal of creating the cerebral Superman was to be achieved by The Secret Alchemy (from which the reader may infer the significance of Mary Magdalene's role) and this was practised by the chosen few of the Order who had ascended through the Lower Mysteries to the Greater Mysteries.

This "apostasy" threatened the Christian Church in that Templarism, in order to achieve its hidden agenda of replacing modern man with a version of humanity as far removed from the New Man as man is from the ape, would eventually have to overthrow Christianity, and explains why, from the point of view of Pope Clement V, the Church saw the necessity to dissolve the Order.

Karl
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#30

Post by Karl » 25 Jun 2004, 01:12

Ohrdruf, thanks for the info.

I don’t believe a word of it.

Karl

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