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Greatest soldier of all time

Discussions on the pre First World War era.

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne on 26 Mar 2002 14:25

Danes were Vikinks too right Ferdinand


Oh yes, definately.

Let's put it this way - it was a Viking from Iceland that discovered Greenland, and in turn North America - because he had to run from a murder on a chief, and he saw Greenland from Iceland, and thought it would be a nice place to go...

Denmark has owned Iceland up until WWII, so the Danish are the real Vikings here!!! (why we do not claim North America back, I don't know:wink:)

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Best Soldiers

Postby Angelo on 26 Mar 2002 16:47

LOL, I'd sign your claim so to halt the mocking going along with the idea that a "pidgeon" discovered America. (In Italian, the word "Colombo" means "pidgeon" :D ).

Go ahead and do it, you might enter the new Guinness!

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re

Postby IAR80 on 26 Mar 2002 18:57

MagyarCrusader, that's enough, the huns only accelated the already decaying Roman Empire. The whole empire simply lived its life, the huns did play a part, but so did the other peoples that migrated
P.S. : So you finally admit that the huns are your ancestors, so much for your nobility, what hungarian troops did in Transylvania is only a natural followup. Once a killing machine, always a killing machine.
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Postby Benoit Douville on 26 Mar 2002 22:48

Ferdinand,

I believe it was Leif Erickson who discovered North America. He was Norwegian or Danes?
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Postby Fred on 26 Mar 2002 23:07

Leif Erickson was Norwegian .

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Postby Qvist on 27 Mar 2002 13:29

COSSACKS?!!

They have never been considered elite troops, just harassing light skirmishing cavalry who always avoided direct confrontation with good troops. Voted samurai myself - they put years of dedicated training into honing their skills, to which nothing modern really compares. Relative to the constraints of their age, I believe they were the best. Would've liked to see the Knights Templar in there. And the Spartans. And the Romans, obviously. And despite being Norwegian, I have to admit I would find it hard to see that the Vikings had a legitimate place in that crowd.

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Postby Christian Ankerstjerne on 27 Mar 2002 14:16

Leif Erickson was Norwegian
Actually, it was Leivur Eiriksson :) - still, my bad - well, we still had the Kalmar union :D

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Joke?

Postby Bad Tolz on 28 Mar 2002 07:00

Then you know nothing about Cossaks and nothing about your own Vikings.Post garbage elsewhere.
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 28 Mar 2002 07:31

August 3 of 1770. Battle of Kagul. 17,000 Russians attacked and defeated Turkish army of 150,000 supported by 80,000 Tartar allies.


http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Co ... /d0803.htm
Russian loses less than 1000 ;Ottoman loses around 40000.


All I could find.
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 28 Mar 2002 08:16

20-guns brig "Mercury" was laid in Sevastopol on the 28 of January (February, 9), 1819. It was built of Crimean oak and was launched on the 7th (19th) of May, 1820. Ship master colonel 1. la. Osminin conceived "Mercury" as a special ship to protect Kavkas coast and as a patrol ship. Unlike the other brigs of Russian Navy, it had a shallow draught and was equipped with oars. A shallow draught limitted the less than others have the depth of hold and made its speed lower.

In the end of Russian-Turkish war of- 1828 -1829 three Russian ships: 44-gun frigate "Standart" (commander captain-lieutenant P. la. Sahnovsky), 20-gun brig "0rfey" (commandercaptain-liuetenant E. 1. Koltovsky) and 20-gun brig "Mercury" (commander captain-lieutenant A. 1. Kazarsky) were ordered to cruise near the way out of the strait Bosporus. Sahnovsky was charged with a command of all the ship's complement. On the 12th (24th) of May, 1829, the ships weighed anchors and set their course for Bosporus.

At dawn May, 14(26), in 13 miles from the strait ship's complement noticed Turkish squadron consisting of 14 ships sailing from the shores of Anatolia. Sahnovsky wanted to make an opponent out in order to get to know his forces this time. Then there was a signal from "Standart" "Mercury" - to lie to". Sahnovsky kept the most slow ship. Having counted Turkish pennants"Standart"and "0rfey" turned back. Enemy squadron began persueing Russian ships. Having seen the scouts turning back Kazarsky ordered himself to stop drifting and to hoist the sails. Very soon fast"Standart"drew level with "Mercury". And there was a new signal on its mast: "Each ship should choose its own course which would help him to make a primary move".

Kazarsky chose NNW,"Standart"and "0rfey" having set their course to NW, rushed ahead and soon turned into two flutty clouds on the horizon. Meanwhile "Mercury" was being surrounded by Turkish ships. The wind blew to WSW, the enemy went strictly northward. The best Turkish ships - 110-gun "Selimie" with a flag of Kapudan- pashi and 74-gun "Real-bei" gradually reached "Mercury". The rest of Turkish squadron lied to waiting when the admirals would catch or sink refractory Russian brig. "Mercury" had a little chance to escape (184 guns against 20, even if not to take a calibre of the guns into consideration). There was no hope of a successful outcome of the Fight was already inevitable.

About two o'clock the wind dropped and the speed of Turkish ships became lower. Availing himself of the opportunity Kazarsky useing the oars wanted to move away from the enemy, but the wind became stronger and Turkish ships started cutting the distance down. Towards 15 o'clock the enemy opened the fire from the guns.

After the first Turkish shots there was a council of war on the brig. According to the military tradition a man of a junior rank had a privilege to express his opinion first. "We can't escape from our enemy", - said navigator 1. P. Prokofiev. - "We'll fight. Russian brig must not be taken prisoner! The last survival will blow it up". The commander of brig "Mercury", 28-years old captain-lieutenant A. 1. Kazarsky who had been confered a gold sabre for the battles under Varna in 1828, who was considered one of the bravest officers of Black Sea Fleet, wrote in his dispatch to admiral A. S. Greig: "We unanimously decided to fight to the utmost and if masts and spars will be already impossible to pump the water in the hold out, any survival officer should burn a powder - magazine.

Having finished a council, the commander appealed to the sailors not to disgrace the honour of Andreev flag. All the people declored that they would be true to their duty and oath. Before the Turkish there was an opponent which prefered death to surrender and battle to lowering the flag.

Having stopped rowing, ship's complement prepared brig for the battle: the gunners held a defensive positions, a sentry near the flag was ordered to shoot at anybody who would try to lower the flag; the yawl hung over-stern was threw down in thea sea and from two 3-pounds guns drawn in the stern chase was opened replyind fire on enemy.

Kazarsky knew the weak and strong points of his brig. Despite its 9 years old "Mercury" was strong, though hard to move. It held back a'high wave, but was too heavy in calm sea. It could be saved only by the art of manoeuvre and by accuracy of the gunners.

The real battle began, when "Selimie" tried to skirt the brig from the right and fired a volley from the left side, but Kazarsky managed to dodge. Then "Mercury" began skilfully manoeuvreing, used oars and obliging enemy acting only chase guns. Then it found itself between both ships.

The dense swerm of the cannon-balls flew to "Mercury". To the demaud to surrender Kazarsky replied by rifle-shots and volleys of the carronade. The rigging and masts and spars - that the "Achilles heel" of even such a giants as these multi-gun ships. Finally, accurately fired 24-pounds round-shots of "Mercury" spoilt the bobstay and damaged main-topgallant-mast of "Selimie" that made it lie to. "Real-bei" insistautly went on a battle. During an hour, changing the tacks, it sent cruel fore-and-aft volleys. "Mercury" repeled an attacks and spoilt the left arm fore-topsail-yard of Turkish ship. All these things made him unable to persue Russian ship and at 17.30 it stopped the battle.
As a cannonade from ftie South died away,"Standart"and "0rfey" considering "Mercury" sunk put a flag at half mast signifying the mourning.

When the wounded brig approached Sevastopol where there were the main forces of Black Sea Fleet, contused, with a head bandaged Kazarsky counted the losses: 4 killed, 6 wounded, 22 holes in the hull, 133 holes in the sails, 16 damages in the masts and spars, 148 in rigging.

May, 15, "Mercury" joined the Fleet which being informed by"Standart"put out to sea in full complement at 14.30.
Brig's feat was highly-appreciated by the enemy. After the battle one of the navigators of Turkish ship noticed: "lf in the great deeds of ancient of own times there are the feats of bravery, so this act put the othes in the shade and the name of a hero should be wrote by the gold letter in the shrine of glory: the captain was Kazarsky, and the name of this brig was "Mercury".
Ship's complement which added a chapter to a book of Russian sea glory was handsomely rewarded. Kazarsky and Prokofiev got the order of Georgiy of IV degree, the other offices got the orders of Vladimir of IV degree, all the sailors got the decorations. The offices were promoted and Kazarsky got a rank of adjutant. All the officers and the sailors were granted a life pension in the scale of double salary. The brig - the second from Russian memorable ships - got Georgiy flag and pennaunt.

"Mercury" served up to November, 9, 1857, when there was an instruction to disassemble it because of its delapidated state. Nevertheless its name was kept in the Russian Fleet to pass it to the worthy ship of Georgiy flag. Three ships of Black Sea Fleet carried the name "The memory of Mercury" by turns: in 1865 - corvette, in 1883 and in 1907 - cruisers.
In 1834 in Sevastopol Black Sea squadron of M. P. Lazarev erected a monument built according to the design of the architector A. P. Brullov. The high monument with the words: "To Kazarsky. To the posterity as an example", is crowned with bronse triera.



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Postby TheContemplator on 29 Mar 2002 10:19

If I may share my opinion,

Who gave the U.S. Marines the nick name, Devil Dogs? :evil: It was the German soldiers from WWI.

The Japanese and Germans had been prepared to die for their "cause" such as kamikaze while the Marines did not.

The Marines are usually the first of the forces to go into combat. The Waffen SS did not, the Heer or Wehrmacht did.

The word Viking means a sea coast raider, compared to Marines who launch from the sea for a purpose other than pillaging.

My favor goes for the U.S. Marines in accordance to the question of this poll: "Who are the greatest soldiers of all time?" Not who had the biggest empire.

"The few, the proud, U.S. Marines!" :x
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Really?

Postby Bad Tolz on 29 Mar 2002 12:40

Anyone who thinks the US MArines have no "mind training" are kidding themselves completely.The US marines are one of the most brainwashed groups of soldiers that history has ever seen.
Do not put down the Waffen SS!The premier divisions fought in battles that the MArines have never seen the like.Waffen SS men kept going when the Wehrmacht could no longer and they DID spearhead attacks!!!Ever heard of the Leibstandarte for example?I ask you read up on its battle history...Das Reich maybe?
The Heer Soldat was also far superior to the Marine.
Vikings lived in different times my friend,but you must not dismiss the fact that they were great warriors!!!
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Postby Birgitte Heuschkel on 29 Mar 2002 12:42

Qvist1 wrote:Would've liked to see the Knights Templar in there.


Hmmm, nah, those didn't last more than 300 years. Throw in the Knights Hospitaller, a.k.a. Knights of St. John and Knights of Malta instead, those fought some pretty impressive wars over time -- and while they're no longer military, they're still around (as are the Knights Teutonic).
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Postby Caldric on 29 Mar 2002 19:46

Anyone who thinks the US MArines have no "mind training" are kidding themselves completely.The US marines are one of the most brainwashed groups of soldiers that history has ever seen.


What army does not have a bit of propaganda instilled into it?

And how many Marines do you know? I know about 6 maybe 7, and although they are highly motivated and almost always wound a bit tight, brainwashed is not the correct word. Much of this comes from the world in which they live, where constant readiness for rapid deployment puts them on the edge, at least for the Riflemen. Ever heard of Inchon, Da Nang, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Saipan, Okinawa, and many other places most people have never heard of.

I am not saying they are the best in all of history, nor would I say the SS was. However, I think you are mistaken in your surmise of the Marine Corp.
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Re: Greatest Soldiers

Postby Galahad on 30 Mar 2002 00:59

I'm noticing that some people put specific units, as opposed to soldiers in general. So, here comes MY 2 bits worth. <g>
Greatest Units: Hood's Texas Brigade (Lee's Grenadier Guard), Caesar's 10th Legion, Napoleon's Old Guard, 2nd SS Panzer Division, 22nd Air Landing Division, Afrika Korps, US 1st Marine Division, US 101st Airborne Division, US 1st Infantry Division, Wellington's Light Division.
Greatest Armies: Army of Republican Rome, Army of Imperial Rome, Byzantine Army, Genghis Khan's Army, Army of Alexander the Great, Spartan Army, Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, Britain's 1914 Expeditionary Force, WW 2 German Wehrmacht, WW 2 post-1941 Soviet Army.
Greatest Soldiers: A whole bunch over history. Bravery and ability don't change, and each era of history has produced soldiers who are indistiguishable from those of another, even if they lose.
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