Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this guy???

Discussions on other historical eras.
User avatar
Ongava
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Jan 2010, 23:12
Location: Otjiwarongo / Distrikt Otjozondjupa / Namibia

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this guy???

#61

Post by Ongava » 12 Feb 2010, 13:24

Dear Albaicin, dear friends,

dont't worry for late reply: also me, I have to work to earn my money.
Thanks for your comments, I am just going through the papers from the American Hoover Archives, some of this content is difficult to read as well as difficult to believe. Can anyone answer my questions:

Where else in literature is the staff physician Riabukhin mentionend?

Did the rude generals Rezukhin really exist? (Most of the nams mentioned in Riabukhin's report I found somewhere,
but not Rezukhin)

Is any thing known about the lady translating the "Story..."

What do you and the colleagues think of organizing a "Sternberg" workshop, e.g. either in Graz or in Ulan Bator?
Strange idea, but why not?

Best regards

Johannes Ongava

User avatar
white_guard
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Mar 2010, 23:05
Location: Moscow
Contact:

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#62

Post by white_guard » 31 Aug 2010, 17:26

Rezukhin existed. Uzefowitch in his book mentions Ungern s right hand Boris Rezukhin


raptor
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 23:50

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#63

Post by raptor » 25 Sep 2010, 00:05

First of all, thank everyone here for the brilliant talk over the Baron, that has opened even more my interest for his person and actions. I have taken note of all the sources mentioned here and will soon deepen in the lecture of this subject, as much as the english resources can provide for me.
If anybody could help me with a bit of information, i would like to know if Palmer's book on the matter
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-White-Ba ... 555&sr=8-1
is trustworthy by any means in terms of hist. accuracy, since I would like to keep a rather short leash on the romanticized or soviet propagandistic views of this subject.
I will start with Ossendowski; since it looked to be a very good first step in the matter i ordered his book 1st, but i am already "planning the next step".

Thank you again.

User avatar
Eddy Marz
Member
Posts: 559
Joined: 12 Mar 2007, 12:32
Location: France

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#64

Post by Eddy Marz » 25 Sep 2010, 09:36

Hi Raptor;
I personally found Palmer's book well documented, serious, and good reading. He brushes a good general picture of the man and of the very complicated political situation. I recommend it.

Eddy
8-)

R
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 06:30
Location: China

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#65

Post by R » 29 Dec 2011, 15:13

This is somewhat late; but I'm afraid I cannot agree with Eddy's assessment above. I found Palmer's 'Bloody White Baron' to be a badly written, poorly documented and worthless book. It seems to be an extremely misguided attempt at emulating the style of Peter Hopkirk's books, such as 'Setting the East Ablaze'. While we may forgive Hopkirk his journalistic excesses, gross over-simplifications and errors for the sheer entertainment value of his works, Palmer's scabrous 'biography' has no such redeeming features. Giving a detailed refutation would be a thankless task, yet one Mongolist academic has done precisely that (PDF): http://www.mtac.gov.tw/mtac_quarterly/q ... 980580.pdf

As has been noted before, Jamie Bisher's 'White Terror' remains the best source in English, and is an excellent model of what military history should be like. If you read French, then you may also be interested to know that Dimitri Perchine's memoirs have been finally published as 'L'épopée du baron Ungern-Sternberg en Mongolie'.

raptor
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 23:50

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#66

Post by raptor » 15 Jan 2012, 23:15

Actually, it's not late at all ;)
I have read Ossendowski's book but never got to Palmer's - as for the White Terror... I have seen it on amazon and was actually pretty interested in buying it. I will probably take that one up 1st and then go to Palmer to see for myself how everything sets in place.
Unfortunately my french is not really good...however i'm currently studying russian so hopefully in a few years I'll be able to follow some of the russian material on our beloved baron.

Such a fascinating, powerful, dark and at the same time weak, lonely, out-of-this-world character; perhaps a Lope de Aguirre or a William Walker stranded outside of their times in the twilight of the Russian Civil War.

R
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 06:30
Location: China

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#67

Post by R » 16 Jan 2012, 01:21

Since you have read Ossendowski's seminal 'novel', you should also take a look at some of the other memoirs of that time, especially 'Asian Odyssey' by Dimitri Alioshin, which is happily available online here (you will need to search): http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/ Or: http://dli.iiit.ac.in/

Bear in mind that both of these authors were involved in intelligence work, and that the old adage 'cui bono' applies, especially in cases like these.

Also, French readers will welcome this translation of the transcripts of Ungern's trial (as well as other relevant documents on the same blog): http://lettresdemoscou.blogspot.com/201 ... ngern.html

goldenkrishna
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 13:09

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#68

Post by goldenkrishna » 03 Jun 2013, 14:37

Hello friends,

In 1997 a good friend gave me a book by Ossendowsky and told me to read it as it was interesting to learn about those characters. And so I read it (with dislike). The interesting thing was how bad man can behave.

I stumbled upon this forum and I'm curious as to why you all are so interested in the 'mad' Baron. Will you tell me why you are so interested?

As I love astrology, I tried to find out his exact date & moment of birth, in order to learn from it. Well at last I found his date of birth though not his birthtime. From the physical descriptions and character traits I could estimate a birthtime.

But, again, I'm still curious why you all are so interested in this person.

With love,
goldenkrishna

R
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Aug 2007, 06:30
Location: China

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#69

Post by R » 03 Sep 2013, 22:48

Hello Goldenkrishna,

We wouldn't want to spoil your fun at rectifying Ungern's birth date by giving you exact details, but you ought to know that there were 2 different calendars in use at the time, and that there are also at least 2 different recorded places of birth...

goldenkrishna
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 13:09

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#70

Post by goldenkrishna » 05 Oct 2013, 20:40

Hello R,

Thanks for the reply! Now Max's birthdate is December 29, 1885; he was born in Graz, Austria. No questions about it!!
What I was trying to find out was the moment of birth. He was definately born before Sunrise at about 5:00 am.

If I'm correct, you live in China. Then I'd like to here from you how you view the life and actions of 'mad' Max. I still wonder why all the above members are interested in Max? Shed some light on it.

With love,
goldenkrishna

raptor
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 23:50

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#71

Post by raptor » 22 Dec 2013, 00:49

Why do young children show so much interst in such grotesque beasts as the dinosaurs? Ever stumbled upon a mushroom of the amanita genus? Deadly, nasty bunch, but still you hold some fascination for those bright, somehow unnatural colors. Are you perhaps accquainted with the paintings of H. Bosch? Why do some people enjoy reading of Dante's descent into hell?

There's most of my answer, if you can make something of it.

goldenkrishna
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 13:09

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#72

Post by goldenkrishna » 19 Jan 2014, 17:56

Hello raptor,

I thank you for your 'answer' though I'm shure that you are aware you could have done a better job.
Now, initially, when I was reading the book in the nineties, I thought of him as a brutal beast. At present I regard him as a man with dedication; he was white and truly opposed to the red (Bolsheviks and the Jews who betrayed his homeland and sold it to the Russians). Still I think his actions were off scale, though he had to work with a small group of soldiers. He wanted them to be as dedicated as he was, no place for cowards and traitors.
With hindsight,I wonder why he ever attempted the whole affair with such a small group. He should have known, that it was to fail.
Furthermore, it was a different era and all the parties involved were ruthless. We now know what a bunch of liars, thiefs and deceivers those top ranked Bolsheviks (most of them were Jews) were.
I guess, Max was courageous and mad to enter this type of war. Normal life had little to offer to Max. For the Bolsheviks he was an idiot, a traitor and a criminal; for others he was a hero.
You tell me?

With love,
goldenkrishna

goldenkrishna
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 13:09

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#73

Post by goldenkrishna » 24 Feb 2014, 11:41

Dear members,

It looks to me that your interest in Max have dried up or is it only that no new info is available. I hope you can supply me with some info concerning the scar on his forehead, was it on the left or right side of his forehead?
Was he interested in a type of sport? or was he merely into drinking, smoking and gambling? Did he read litterature in his younger years?
Did anyone find out the exact identity of his chinese wife?
After he was shot, was his body burned?

Being the rebirth of Ghengiz Khan, was this just a figment of his imagination or was this stated by a Lama?

I'd love to learn from you!

With love & respect,
goldenkrishna

JerseyGary
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: 07 May 2006, 05:52
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#74

Post by JerseyGary » 06 May 2014, 03:33

I just have to say thanks to the guys who recommended Jamie Bisher's 'White Terror' - I'm halfway through this thing and it is better than I thought it would be. It's had to read due to the typesetting (not much gutter so the text runs into the seam of the book), but besides that it is one of the most interesting (surreal comes to mind) military history book I've read. Bisher not only knows his stuff but he is a talented writer so it turns into a great read as well.

User avatar
Balrog
Member
Posts: 1248
Joined: 17 Feb 2003, 16:09
Location: USA, North Carolina/Manchukuo/Dominican Republic

Re: Roman Feodorovich von Ungern-Sternberg...who was this gu

#75

Post by Balrog » 11 May 2014, 01:55

I bought the Bisher book almost three years ago, and I'm still reading it! I keep getting sidetracked looking into other areas mentioned in his book. It's an interesting book. I paid a small fortune for my copy. Surreal is a good way to describe what went on in that period of time in Russia. But Russia is a very strange and brutal place. It reminds me of a story:

After the Golden Horde conquered Russia, a Mongol General was given a tour of St. Basil cathedral in the Moscow. The Mongol saw a painting of the Virgin Mary and asked a Russian priest who she was. After the priest related the story of the Virgin Birth to the Mongol General, the general looked over at one of his subordinates and said: "Well, I guess in Russia, anything is possible." That quote went on to be used by Russians for the next few centuries...

Post Reply

Return to “Other eras”