Greatest soldier of all time

Discussions on other historical eras.
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Benoit Douville
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#91

Post by Benoit Douville » 27 Apr 2002, 00:52

VHaist,

I just feels that the Romans are overated and they don't deserve to be on the list. :)

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Tiwaz
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#92

Post by Tiwaz » 29 Apr 2002, 09:16

Yes. They only started from little peninsula and ended up ruling whole Mediterranean and most of modern Britain. That is absolutely pathetic achievement.


Ovidius
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#93

Post by Ovidius » 29 Apr 2002, 09:53

Tiwaz wrote:Yes. They only started from little peninsula and ended up ruling whole Mediterranean and most of modern Britain. That is absolutely pathetic achievement.
You forgot North Africa, Middle East, Gallia and the Balkan Peninsula up to beyond the Carpathians.

Pitful, ain't it? :P

~Ovidius

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#94

Post by Ovidius » 29 Apr 2002, 10:07

Thunderstruck wrote:Probably true but I'll put the Marines up against anybody else any day. After all the streets of Heaven are guarded by United States Marines.
Nope.. I would say they must be the Waffen SS troopers from the LSSAH, or from the 12th SS "Hitlerjugend" Division, which in many aspects was better than the LSSAH itself.
The Marine Corp is all about discipline. My Dad has been out for 35 years and still is a Marine. How many Waffen SS can say that?
Considering how thousands of scum propagandists, both Westerners and Commies, had tried to brainwash us in thinking how "criminal" was the SS, and how the Nuremberg Kangaroo Court has labeled the SS a "criminal organization", while they poured in our eyes and ears plenty of crap about the Heroic US Soldier, Guardian of Democracy(five minutes of stormy applause), it's nothing to be amazed of.

~Ovidius

Gwynn Compton
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#95

Post by Gwynn Compton » 29 Apr 2002, 10:39

while they poured in our eyes and ears plenty of crap about the Heroic US Soldier, Guardian of Democracy(five minutes of stormy applause), it's nothing to be amazed of.
Well technically speaking, the US is the guardian of Democracy, I don't see anyone else with the capabilities, or the will to take this role. However I too get tired with the constant glorification of the American's in World War 2. They take all the credit for so many actions which they participated and forget the sacrifices of others.

I recall Band of Brothers, in it the Americans fight heroically for some village, and then afterwards there are only Americans in the town. After seeing this episode, a former inhabitant of the town wrote to a local magazine here in New Zealand pointing out that during the fighting, all he ever saw were British soldiers, even after the fighting there was no sign of the American soldiers portrayed in Band of Brothers.

Unfortunately I didn't keep the letter so I can't name the village.

While the Americans did make huge sacrifices during World War 2, I rank them no higher, or lower than those made by other countries made in World War 2. I just wish that the American movie establishment would make something that was historically accurate.

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Tiwaz
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#96

Post by Tiwaz » 29 Apr 2002, 11:29

Ovidius wrote:
Tiwaz wrote:Yes. They only started from little peninsula and ended up ruling whole Mediterranean and most of modern Britain. That is absolutely pathetic achievement.
You forgot North Africa, Middle East, Gallia and the Balkan Peninsula up to beyond the Carpathians.

Pitful, ain't it? :P

~Ovidius
Nnope. I counted them in Mediterranean. After all there was very little beaches around that little sea that weren't under Roman control.

I think nobody has after that "owned" a whole sea of that size.
Or before....

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Galahad
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Re: US movie accuracy

#97

Post by Galahad » 30 Apr 2002, 02:08

I agree with Gwynn here: "I just wish that the American movie establishment would make something that was historically accurate"
It irks the hell out of me when I view a movie that is technically or historically inaccurate. I like John Wayne flicks, for instance, but I can't stand to watch The Comancheros. It's set in 1840 Texas, and everyone is armed with lever action Winchester 73's and Colt Peacemakers. Ugh.
The US forces--however much they are dissed--DID accomplish a lot and do some amazing things during WW 2; I see no reason why movies can't be based on what actually happened and without poofing the exploits to the skies.
Hollywood CAN make decent historical movies, when it tries. The Longest Day was an excellent story, despite the "art" changes from Ryan's book, and Battle of Britain is an epic the likes of which we're probably not going to see again.
But Hollywood knows that what makes the most moolah is fantasy, not history. And money talks louder than anything else.
Sigh.
And I STILL think the Byzantine Army ranks way up there.....maintaining the Empire's borders mostly intact against numerous enemies with greater population resources, for 500 years, is a hell of an accomplishment.

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Re: US movie accuracy

#98

Post by Ovidius » 30 Apr 2002, 20:10

Galahad wrote:I agree with Gwynn here: "I just wish that the American movie establishment would make something that was historically accurate"
It irks the hell out of me when I view a movie that is technically or historically inaccurate. I like John Wayne flicks, for instance, but I can't stand to watch The Comancheros. It's set in 1840 Texas, and everyone is armed with lever action Winchester 73's and Colt Peacemakers. Ugh.
Ever watched Kelly's Heroes? It's interesting how a painted-plywood superstructure can turn a T-34 into a Tiger :P

Or "Force 10 from Navarone"? It's pretty fun to see German occupation troops in Yugoslavia, riding in T-34 tanks and M2 half-tracks. 8)
The US forces--however much they are dissed--DID accomplish a lot and do some amazing things during WW 2; I see no reason why movies can't be based on what actually happened and without poofing the exploits to the skies.
Ask Steven Spielberg, although I doubt he will give a fair answer.
And I STILL think the Byzantine Army ranks way up there.....maintaining the Empire's borders mostly intact against numerous enemies with greater population resources, for 500 years, is a hell of an accomplishment.
The navy maybe, but the army sucked due to inept commanders, poor strategy and reliance on defense.

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Victor
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#99

Post by Victor » 30 Apr 2002, 21:40

Gwynn Compton wrote:[Well technically speaking, the US is the guardian of Democracy, I don't see anyone else with the capabilities, or the will to take this role. However I too get tired with the constant glorification of the American's in World War 2. They take all the credit for so many actions which they participated and forget the sacrifices of others.
Generally, in a war of alliance, the victors try to minimize their allies exploits when comparing with their own. In case of defeat, it is generally the other guys fault.

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Galahad
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Re: Byzantine Army

#100

Post by Galahad » 30 Apr 2002, 23:19

Ovidius writes "The navy maybe, but the army sucked due to inept commanders, poor strategy and reliance on defense."
I have to disagree with that comment. The Byzantine Army was like any other army in history.....it had good periods and bad periods, and good commanders and bad ones.
But overall, it had competent, well-trained and professional officers executing a well-thought out scheme designed to protect the Empire.
While the Germans and the Franks, et al, considered the art of war to be who could chop the most heads in a melee, the Byzantine Army had officer academies that taught the best tactics and strategies to use against whatever enemy they faced, to cause the enemy's ruin with the least possible cost in men and money.
When defensive tactics or strategy were called for, they were used; when the offense was needed, IT was used. And if bribery could remove the need for fighting altogether, bribery was used.
In short, it was a highly disciplined, well-trained, fully professional army. It was the German Army of its day.....but its day lasted 500 years.
It had inept commanders--all armies have--but you can't call the likes of Narses, Belisarius, Heraclius, Nicephoras Phocas and Basil II Bulgaroctonus--to name a few--inept.
If the army and its commanders and their strategy were so bad, how was the empire able to survive, keeping the empire's heartland mostly intact, for 500 years?
Because the system was so professional and because it was designed to execute a chosen imperial strategy of maintaining the imperial borders at the least possible cost, as opposed to allout conquest, which cost money. The system could survive bad commanders and it thrived under good ones.....just like the Roman Army did.
It whipped a long list of enemies over those centuries. And might have continued doing so if not for a commander whose treason at the Battle of Manzikert caused the destruction of the main field army, which was immediately followed by the elimination of the Empire's main recruiting base in Asia Minor when the Seljuk Turks pillaged it into a wasteland.

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Totenkopf
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#101

Post by Totenkopf » 07 May 2002, 18:32

I chosed the Waffen SS, becouse they wanted to defeate the Comies.

And there was about 150 men from sweden to. :)

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Matt Gibbs
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Different Ages

#102

Post by Matt Gibbs » 07 May 2002, 20:05

With different outlooks and different technologies its not a comparison but just a chance to express a personal favourite I guess. I have read a lot about the brutality of the Mongol empire and it's fighting prowess so they get my vote. If they are in a fight with some machine gunners of the 12th SS then I vote for the Waffen-SS of course!!
Regards :mrgreen:

Matt G

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Tiwaz
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#103

Post by Tiwaz » 08 May 2002, 00:06

Out of curiosity since my history teacher either forgot to inform me about it or I have forgotten it...

What is a difference between Mongol and Hun?

I have vague memory of them being 2 names of same group. Naturally wouldn't be first time for such memories to be wrong.

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Galahad
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Re: Huns and Mongols

#104

Post by Galahad » 08 May 2002, 00:15

The Huns and Mogols are from similiar ethnic groups of Asian nomadic horsemen, but different societies separated by around 800 years of time.
The Huns did THEIR ravaging ca 450AD. The last of the many great victories of the Roman Empire was when Aetius led his Romans and their Gothic allies at the Battle of Chalons-sur-Marne, and defeated Attila the Hun. The Huns basically faded from history a couple of years later, when Attila died. He made them a terror, and without him they went back to historical oblivion.
Cept maybe for the nation called Hungary, of course. <g>

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Andy H
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#105

Post by Andy H » 08 May 2002, 23:02

This is mission impossible III.

There are so many missing from the list from Ancient times upto present day and to try and compare the fighting capabilities from one era of time with another is futile because the scenario's are so false.

Some of the few missing ones I can think off are, The American Plains Indians, Zulu's, Viet-Cong, Saxons/Celts, The Armies of Hannibal, The Armies of Alexander the Great, Greek/Roman Armies, Armies of Henry V, British Longbowmen, Syrian armies of Darius, Gurkha's, Israeli Armies of the Six Day War, plus a multitude of regiments from all over the world.

:D Andy from the Shire

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