Biggest battles in Africa

[Mrks]

What would be the biggest single battles in Africa after WW2? Biggest in troops involved, casualties and significance to the war effort? Excluding conflicts involving non-African troops.

[Polynikes]

The battle of Mogadishu 1993?

[Zygmunt]

Well, the Biafra/Nigeria conflict 1967-70 is always worth considering.
Besides that, how's about the Ethiopian/Eritrean conflict? Once the sides had rearmed during the nineties there were (according to the BBC's "From our own correspondent" reports I was listening to) major battles involving tanks, artillery, jet aircraft and significant numbers of infantry. Apparently all the weapons involved were of Ex-Soviet/WP origin.

The best summary of the conflict I found was here:
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/echo/eth ... ea1998.htm

Both landlocked Ethiopia and neighboring Eritrea (on the Red Sea), feuding over currency and trade issues, laid claim to a 150-square mile border region known as Badame in northern Ethiopia. There on May 6, 1998, fighting erupted between Eritrean and Ethiopian troops, and within a month both sides were exchanging artillery and tank fire. Eritrean aircraft bombed the northern Ethiopian towns of Adigrat and Mekele, while ground troops clashed on three fronts (one close to the Red Sea). Ethiopia retaliated with air strikes on Eritrea's capital, Asmara. By late June 1998, the intense fighting had killed hundreds of people (many were civilians), and diplomatic peace efforts by the United States and Rwanda floundered; both sides finally accepted a proposal to halt air raids, but in October 1998, they were moving men and arms to the border. In February 1999, serious fighting resumed, involving artillery, tanks, ground troops, and warplanes, over the claims of both countries to Badame; both sides suffered heavy losses, with Ethiopia claiming "significant victories," which Eritrea disclaimed.

Because of the military hardware (tanks, artillery, aircraft) being deployed in pitched battles I consider this the most serious conventional conflict in Africa.

Zygmunt

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to citizen Mrks and the community as a whole. Well sir, in reference to your inquiry of Tuesday - June 22, 2004 - 2:23pm, old Uncle Bob is in a quandry over the technical classification of what actually constitutes "AFRICAN" versus "NON-AFRICAN" within the context of your introduction. Are you speaking of specific native ethnicities or are you speaking of ANYONE who was physically born on the vast continent of Africa? It is difficult, at best, to address the central thrust of your thread without knowing who IS and who IS NOT a player in the continuous tragedy that is greater Africa. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration in regards to this matter. In anycase, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in your beautiful land of lakes and forests.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob 8)

[Mrks]

Greetings to citizen Mrks and the community as a whole. Well sir, in reference to your inquiry of Tuesday - June 22, 2004 - 2:23pm, old Uncle Bob is in a quandry over the technical classification of what actually constitutes "AFRICAN" versus "NON-AFRICAN" within the context of your introduction. Are you speaking of specific native ethnicities or are you speaking of ANYONE who was physically born on the vast continent of Africa?

I just meant to leave out conflicts where non-African troops were significantly participating, such as Algerian Independence 1954-62 and the Six Day War.

Well, the Biafra/Nigeria conflict 1967-70 is always worth considering.
Besides that, how's about the Ethiopian/Eritrean conflict? Once the sides had rearmed during the nineties there were (according to the BBC's "From our own correspondent" reports I was listening to) major battles involving tanks, artillery, jet aircraft and significant numbers of infantry. Apparently all the weapons involved were of Ex-Soviet/WP origin.

Thanks for that link. I am however looking for information about single major battles that has taken place in these numerous conlicts and wars Africa has faced since WW2. Since many of the civil wars tend to go on for years and years as guerilla warfare it is difficult to find out about individual battles.

[Karwats]

The Tumpo Battles during Operations Hooper & Packer 1987/88. Cuito Cuanavale Southern Angola.

5 FAPLA (Angolan Army) Brigades 16,21,25,47 & 59.
SADF 4 SA Inf Bn, 61 Mech Inf Bn, 32 Bn, 101 Bn and numerous Unita forces. During the battles both the 16 and 21 Angolan Bgdes were wiped out.

This was the final "conventional" phase of the South African bush war and involved tanks,APC's, IFV's,engineering vehicles and everything else associated with a historical conventional warfare.

[Zygmunt]

I just meant to leave out conflicts where non-African troops were significantly participating, such as Algerian Independence 1954-62 and the Six Day War.

I don't think you really clarified what Robert Rojas was asking about - which is what do you consider to be "African"?. I infer from what you have written that you wouldn't count battles involving the Cuban forces, but would you consider white (european/caucasian) troops living in Africa to be "African" or "non-African". Rhodesia was definitely in Africa, but a significant number of combat troops were not born in Rhodesia, or even in Africa, particularly in units such as the Rhodesian Light Infantry. Would you consider these to be "African" or "non-African"?

I am however looking for information about single major battles that has taken place in these numerous conlicts and wars Africa has faced since WW2. Since many of the civil wars tend to go on for years and years as guerilla warfare it is difficult to find out about individual battles.

Right, I was hoping that that link would be useful as a starting place, and I deliberately didn't include the other promising link that google gave me because I wanted to give only balanced infomation. However, if you want the Ethiopian take on "The Battle of Barentu", try this link:

http://www.geocities.com/~dagmawi/NewsL ... _2000.html

Zygmunt

[yerbamatt]

Maybe not the biggest but the most spectacular in post-war Africa was a blitz of around 1,500 South African troops on Angolan capital, Luanda in October-November 1975 before declaring independence by that former Portuguese colony. They got stopped by Cuban forces about thirty miles down south-east of the capital.

Regards...

[Zygmunt]

...They got stopped by Cuban forces about thirty miles down south-east of the capital...

Right, and I'm guessing that wouldn't fit into Mrks' definition of "African".
Mrks?

Zygmunt

[Karwats]

They got stopped by Cuban forces about thirty miles down south-east of the capital.

Have you got a source for this battle??
I know of no engagement where the Cubans held up much less stopped the SADF. Not confusing FNLA or Unita with SADF ??

The resulting campaign, 'Operation Savannah', was to firmly establish the fighting reputation of the SADF. Two of the four battlegroups involved, named 'Foxbat' and 'Zulu', advanced rapidly into Angola, scattering the opposition before them, and reaching as far as the area of Luanda, the capital. The FNLA, however, after going against South African advice, launched an ill-conceived attack on Luanda itself and was defeated. American support for the campaign had by now evaporated, and the South Africans decided to withdraw their forces in an orderly manner which would allow Savimbi's UNITA to consolidate its positions and still benefit from the gains of Op Savannah.

From: South Africa's Border War 1966-1989-Willem Steenkamp


You can also have look at.

The War for Africa-Fred Bridgeland
Border War-Al J. Venter
The Angola Speech ca 1990- Fidel Castro

[yerbamatt]

They got stopped by Cuban forces about thirty miles down south-east of the capital.

Have you got a source for this battle??
I know of no engagement where the Cubans held up much less stopped the SADF. Not confusing FNLA or Unita with SADF ??

Dagse Karwats, hoe gaan dit met jou?

Well, South African forces got stopped by outnumberred Cubans (1,300 that time) at the little known battle of EBO in November 1975.

You've asked for sources - there are plenty of them either in English or Spanish (search for "Fuerzas Cubanas en Angola 1975"). I got a few below:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/rhodesia/sadfpres.htm
http://netcentral.co.uk/~cobus/ebo.htm
http://www.icai-online.org/56352,46136.html
http://www.trinicenter.com/modules.php? ... le&sid+256

I do hope it will help clarify your doubts a little bit.

Vriendelike groete

PS. I'm just trying to refresh my Afrikaans, which I studied years ago...

[Karwats]

PS. I'm just trying to refresh my Afrikaans, which I studied years ago...

Jou Afrikaans is baie goed.Baie geluk.

Also scared the hell out of me-never expected to see Afrikaans here

I'll have a look. Also I have seen some of the Cuban websites about Angola and the information is normally shall we say "over processed"

Lekker Bly
F

[yerbamatt]

PS. I'm just trying to refresh my Afrikaans, which I studied years ago...

Jou Afrikaans is baie goed.Baie geluk.

Also scared the hell out of me-never expected to see Afrikaans here

Well, we Poles can sometimes be scary - nobody but nobody plays games with us (you could already notice it, I guess)...

Years ago I tried to settle in your country ( I bet I was Afrikaner in my previous life, really ) - it didn't work though. Lucky me - I would probably finish like my compatriot, Mr. Janusz Walus (you must heard of him).

Tot siens, Karwats

[Soldier]

Karwats: I want to know your opinion about the principals reasons of the sudafrican "defeat" in 1975-76.

The cubans say:They defeated in battle to the sudafricans(Ebo,Balaia and others),that is the principal reason of the sudafrican retreat.

But the sudafricans say:They never were defeated in battle and they lost the war,because the americans left them alone against the cubans,and they were only 3.000 and the cubans more than 36.000.

But in the mayority of the battles,the sudafricans defeated the cubans.
example:Bridge 14(Catofe).

I have a doubt: In the sudafrican contingent from 1975 to 1976.Were there namibians troops friens of the sudafricans?

Check this cuban article

The 8 of August of 1975, the Armed Forces of South Africa invaded angolano territory, because their troops crossed the border under the pretext to control with their military presence to the hydroelectric complex of Calueque. Two weeks later, new South African military units advanced towards the city of Nacamundo and four days later threatened the head of the Cunene province. The months between October of 1975 and March of 1976 corresponded to the development of the operation Savannah, first great directed operation to frustrate so like the independentista process with the occupation of Luanda from the south and with the support of the UNITA.

Two South African military contingents were sent in October and November, adding about 3 000 cash with 36 armored Panhard AML-90, 40 armored Panhard AML-60, 100 light tanks M-41 Walker Bulldog and AMX-13, more than 100 transports Panhard M-3, Unimog trucks and jeeps with antitank tubes S/R of 106 mm and systems Entac, systems artillerymen of 57 mm and 140 mm, as well as helicopters Alouette III. The South African goal of the era to arrive at Luanda before the 11 from November. Initially the three groupings in which the invading South African troops (Native, Ulo and Orange) divided themselves accompanied by two battalions FALA of the UNITA mainly obtained incredible offensive rates by the absence of a deliberate defense.

Single after some armored and trucks detonated antitank mines went that the South Africans began to take some precautions in their advance. Like part of the development of the operation Carlota and danger of the aggression from the south, during November and the first days of December the decision was taken to reinforce with armaments to the FAPLA and Cuban troops.
And by air naval they begin to arrive antitank mortars from 120mm, tubes of 76mm, Maliutka systems, portable systems surface-to-air C.2M Arrow, BM-21, B-10 tubes of 75mm, BTR-152, T-34 tanks and infantry weapon. It is important to indicate that in the middle of the gradual arrival of armaments and the ammunition, the troops of the FAPLA added to their inexperience a high ammunition shortage, the ample sector of fronts (altogether 400Km) and the incomunicación between such increased the difficulties to guarantee an effective defense. The arrival of Cuban regular troops was decisive in the fact to restrain the offensive, which was materialized in the development of the method of the active defense in the Sa- direction gives Bandeira (Lubango), Lobito, Amboin Port, Luanda, Santa Comba (Uaco Cungo), Quibala and Dondo, defining as main line the shores of the rivers Queve and Cuanza (that lack would do to me that Rubén lent a map to me of Angola of its site to illustrate better this).

According to words of Cuban general Cintras You cold, the months of December of 1975 and January of 1976 were decisive because methods different from the classic conceptions with unfolding of tanks were applied, armored and infantry. Blows of artillery fire were implemented when being discovered the advance of the groupings forcing to these forces to retire, after verifying this, occupied the position looking for vantage points that they were fortified and they consolidated, repeating the process later. This scheme corresponds to which it happened in Ebo (23 of November), Balaia (29 of November, the South Africans enter then in the direction Santa Comba (Uaco-Cungo)-Casamba- Catofe- Quibala and from the strategic noses of Tongo they begin to use his long-range artillery of 140mm.

Day 12 of December it happens the famous combat of Catefe, that indeed was a misfortune then as general Romárico raises Sotomayor, the South Africans managed to exceed the defense although single they advanced five kilometers with depth, in my personal opinion, the number of casualties has been exaggerated by western sources, to the point of which if the 200 Cuban losses get there to take place, the counterattack and the immediate breakthrough of the front nobody to the South Africans took off, beside the point, I emphasize that in that combat the first four South African soldiers captured themselves, his names, in case there are doubts are: the end Hannes Gernardus Terblanche, soldiers Robert Wilson, Graham Danney and Robert Wiehahn.

The South Africans to you are from Catofe, threatened by the east occupying Cariango, Gungo and Tari, (yes the map is observed is verified that it was in danger the highway of Quibala to Dondo that was strategic for the advance) despite, the South Africans suffer important losses by the action of minefields in Hengo- Balaia- Ebo and as opposed to the outpost of Catofe, the certain thing is that for the 18 of December the battle front already was stable and day 26 the counterattack takes place that evacuates to the South Africans of Cariango and the occupation of Mussende, culminating here the defensive phase.

Days 31 of December and 1 of January of 1976 if they were scene of a hard and decisive battle, the noses of Medunda, aside from inflict casualties to the racists, had to retire; the 3 is fortify a position, to consolidate a position, the 6 fall Santa Comba and the right margin of the Queve river takes care and with her when the cross a river 30 km in the depth are opened towards the south. A combat that illustrates the war of attrition very well which they free the FAPLA and the Cuban forces in these days were the combat in the plateau of Quissobi, in which 12 combatants and three practitioners demolished two South African helicopters with 7 crew on board and eliminated other 7 South African soldiers with fire of snipers with the loss of a single soldier.
What kind of evidence exists that the Cubans have shot down two South African helicopters on this day (and, what should have been the actual date of these kills)?

[Soldier]

An article of Piero Gleijeses

"

Code: Select all

There were numerous skirmishes and two small battles as the South Africans attempted to break through: at Ebo, on November 23-"Black Sunday," according to a South African historian-the Cubans scored a significant victory; and on December 12, at Bridge 14, fourteen miles south of the strategic village of Catofe, the South Africans took their revenge, but the Cubans quickly regrouped and stopped them before they could reach Catofe. The South Africans were impressed: the Cape Times reported on November 21 that "FNLA and UNITA commanders [maintaining the fiction that South African troops had nothing to do with it] greatly admired the courage of what they said were mercenaries from Cuba fighting with the MPLA." The official South African historian of the war writes, "The Cubans rarely surrendered and simply cheerfully fought until death." By late December, the Cubans finally reached rough numerical parity with the South Africans and prepared to go on the offensive."