Bundeswehr and NVA!

[Kentaurus]

The world is tiny!

Well, I don't know. This here is quite an influential forum. I don't think it's that unlikely that two Krauts meet in the GDR subforum. How did you learn English anyway. I learned it by watching tons of movies that I downloaded off the internet (with basic skills learned in East German school and unified-German "Gymnasium").

[Kristian S.]

Actually no. Growing up in the GDR I can tell you communism was the utopic goal all working class worldwide fighted for and not the present! The present was socialist (at best), so calling it communist would be far fetched!

Actually you Believe(d) the shit they fed you with?

And I don't think the differences (ideological) were that big.

But maybe you are right. I always wondered about the contacts between Strauss and Schalck-Golodkowski.

If the big day would have come wouldn't have had east german soldiers killed west germans and reverse? For ideology or pure wish to survive? The old question/problem like some years back, don't you think?

On the big day ideology and the will to survive would have been disintegrated in a flash of light.

Note: my first answer wasn't meant to offend you in a personal way, but was ment to depict the nature of DDR-propaganda.

v.B.-A.

[Erich Hartmann]

The world is tiny!

Well, I don't know. This here is quite an influential forum. I don't think it's that unlikely that two Krauts meet in the GDR subforum. How did you learn English anyway. I learned it by watching tons of movies that I downloaded off the internet (with basic skills learned in East German school and unified-German "Gymnasium").

Yeah, the basic english was learned in school but then I started to frequent the american embassy (the library) in the Neustädter Kirchstraße for movies and books and there I learned most of it:)
And since then I too have a penchant for books and movies in the original english version.
I also read/write in another international forums where english is mandatory. I learned and still learn but lost nearly
all my russian I worked so hard for 5 years!!!

[Kentaurus]

And since then I too have a penchant for books and movies in the original english version.

If you are interested in TV shows fresh off the American and British airwaves downloadable via filesharing, have a look here: http://www.the-realworld.de/

[Erich Hartmann]

And since then I too have a penchant for books and movies in the original english version.

If you are interested in TV shows fresh off the American and British airwaves downloadable via filesharing, have a look here: http://www.the-realworld.de/

Ahem...I'm a regular there.... 8)

[Kentaurus]

Ahem...I'm a regular there.... 8)

Of course, who isn't

[Frederick the Great]

Well, my opinion is that they look much less like Wehrmacht than their colleagues from the NVA when they did the Zapfenstreich:

NVA (Zapfenstreich): http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/Zapf-der-nva.jpg

I've never come across the terminology "Zapfenstreich". I assume it refers to the military parades with military marching bands. If so, did the Bundeswehr and the NVA both keep up this tradition or was it mostly the NVA?

Keep in mind, that I have always been under the impression that the NVA retained the Prussian (or Wehrmacht) traditions in terms of military uniforms and customs, while the Bundeswehr was somewhat more oriented to an American-style military in terms of uniform and custom.

That's why I was surprised when I heard that just after the reunification in 1990 that the Bundeswehr held a night time torchlight parade through the Brandenburg Gate, IIRC. At the time I had assumed that the Bundeswehr had given up that tradition after WW2.

Are torchlight parades common in the Bundeswehr? They seem to be one of those Prussian/Wehrmacht military traditions.

[Kentaurus]

I've never come across the terminology "Zapfenstreich". I assume it refers to the military parades with military marching bands.

That is mostly correct. But a "Grosser Zapfenstreich" is not a parade but a festive display of military music held at evening or at night. The traditon stems from times when the signal for night's rest was given in musical form. The tradition was introduced during the liberation wars of 1813 to 1815. Before that the signal was given by beating a drum (which roughly translates into "Zapfenstreich" - a "Zapfen" is part of a traditional drum).

If so, did the Bundeswehr and the NVA both keep up this tradition or was it mostly the NVA?

Apparently both.

Keep in mind, that I have always been under the impression that the NVA retained the Prussian (or Wehrmacht) traditions in terms of military uniforms and customs, while the Bundeswehr was somewhat more oriented to an American-style military in terms of uniform and custom.

That is correct. It doesn't mean though that the Bundeswehr has dumped each and every Prussian tradition. Quite the contrary. The Bundeswehr honors many Prussian traditions and customs. Just not the ones which would be too reminding of Wehrmacht.

That's why I was surprised when I heard that just after the reunification in 1990 that the Bundeswehr held a night time torchlight parade through the Brandenburg Gate, IIRC. At the time I had assumed that the Bundeswehr had given up that tradition after WW2.

Are torchlight parades common in the Bundeswehr?

There is no such thing as a torchlight parade in the Bundeswehr. However torchlights are used to illuminate a "Grosser Zapfenstreich" since such an event traditionally is held at evening or night. As I said, a "Grosser Zapfenstreich" is not a parade but a static display of military music. "Grosser Zapfenstreich" events are held mostly to honor distinguished personalities and for festivities.

They seem to be one of those Prussian/Wehrmacht military traditions.

As I said, the tradition stems from the liberation wars.

[nondescript handle]

[...]I've never come across the terminology "Zapfenstreich". I assume it refers to the military parades with military marching bands. If so, did the Bundeswehr and the NVA both keep up this tradition or was it mostly the NVA?[...]

Download a trilangual (German - English - French) flyer of the Bundeswehr explaining what the Zapfenstreich is:
http://www.bundeswehr.de/C1256EF4002AED ... TREICH.pdf

Regards
Mark

[Frederick the Great]

Thanks for the info and links! Very interesting!

One final comment vis-a-vis the NVA and Bundeswehr:

I am aware that the Bundeswehr retained the Prussian Iron Cross (a pre-WW2 version) as a symbol on its jet aircraft, naval fleet, as well as tanks and other armaments. In addition, I also am aware that the Bundeswehr utilized a variation of the eagle as a symbol.

However, I am not aware of the NVA utilizing the Prussian Iron Cross or eagle as symbols. If that's the case, why not as the NVA seemed to utilize most other Prussian (or Wehrmacht) traditions and what symbols did the NVA utilize?

Thanks.

[Doggowitz]

In this case the NVA oriented more on their Soviet "friends". Hammer and Circle where AFAIK not only the National Symbol but also for their Planes, tanks,etc.

[Kentaurus]

However, I am not aware of the NVA utilizing the Prussian Iron Cross or eagle as symbols. If that's the case, why not as the NVA seemed to utilize most other Prussian (or Wehrmacht) traditions and what symbols did the NVA utilize?

The Iron Cross was probably already used by the Bundeswehr. If not it would not have been distinguishing enough. In other words it was too German. Not attractive for the army of a country that tried to emphasize that it was not German but "GDR". See the GDR marking on an NVA vehicle here: http://pvo.guns.ru/images/other/germany ... NVA-03.JPG

[Doggowitz]

Ah...I was correct Hammer and Circle on the National Colours.

[malcolmthegreat]

hello everyone,

do anyone know where to obtain the nva millitary paraDE VIDEO???THSX A LOT???

[hardcorps1775]

hey, you ossies oughta drop by here occasionally too! http://www.gunboards.com/militaria/foru ... ORUM_ID=11