Digitized National Defence University publications & theses

[Slon-76]

Slon, do you write the text in English or do you write it in Russian and then translate with something? Because at times it is very difficult to understand what you are trying to say.

I have written here, including you. I don't know how to write in English. Read in Finnish and English. Writing-can't. Sorry.
You can ask again. I'll try to answer a simple proposal. Sometimes I forget that the possibilities of electronic translators are not unlimited.

This is just from memory, IIRC in one of the documentaries describing the fighting at Suomussalmi and Raate road stated that no one checked all the Soviet casualties from the woods, not Finns and not Soviets.

Soviet commanders (I suppose as the Finnish commanders) believed the loss not bodies in the forest, and by the lack of people in a specific organizational unit. Conditionally. In one Division to the beginning of the war the 14 thousand man. On 15 January -12000. During this time received 2000 people. Calculate loss Division-elementary task. And the number of found dead is a conditional and difficult verifiable.

[Vaeltaja]

You read Finnish too? That is unusual, often the rather alien syntax of Finnish (as not being part of Indo-European languages) makes is rather rare for people to learn it outside of Finland. Then again there are quite a few loan words between Finnish and Russian which might make it easier.

Soviet commanders (I suppose as the Finnish commanders) believed the loss not bodies in the forest, and by the lack of people in a specific organizational unit. Conditionally. In one Division to the beginning of the war the 14 thousand man. On 15 January -12000. During this time received 2000 people. Calculate loss Division-elementary task. And the number of found dead is a conditional and difficult verifiable.

Well, that was the point i was after. At least according to the said documentary no one counted the bodies, neither Finns nor Soviets, so the claim that '5000 dead Soviet' would have been based on the number of actually identified Soviet casualties is unlikely to be true. Only real danger with the approach you mentioned is that it might not catch all the casualties either but its still better than anything else in absence of actual casualty reports.

[JAK]

According to this definition (and IIRC also acc. to the definition of the Finnish army) the soviet 163rd and 44th divisions at Suomussalmi were destroyed.

Based on this definition, the 44 Division destroyed, but 163 Division why is destroyed?

About 20% is generally some sort of nonsense. It turns out that H. Siilasvuo's 9 D. was also destroyed in the fighting with 54 Division?

If I remember correctly, the 20% casualties is referred to term "lyöty" or in English beaten or defeated which would mean that the unit in question is incapable of combat actions for short period of time(some days, maybe?). Don't remember what percentage was referred to "destroyed".

Jari

[Juha Tompuri]

If I remember correctly, the 20% casualties is referred to term "lyöty" or in English beaten or defeated which would mean that the unit in question is incapable of combat actions for short period of time(some days, maybe?). Don't remember what percentage was referred to "destroyed".

During my conscription service IIRC the artillery had their "calculation system" where 50% casualities to the enemy forces ment the enemy unit was destroyed (the surviving were not at condition to operate ), 30% casualities ment the unit was lamautettu, stunned.

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=102950&p=921606&hilit#p921606

Regards, Juha

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Thanks. I've been hunting for those values. My recollection for 30 years back wasn't very precise.

[JariL]

There was no AA-guns.

I believe these were not cannons but machineguns equipped with AA-sights and pods.