The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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John Hilly
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3766

Post by John Hilly » 28 Aug 2014, 17:50

Well another guess then.
Maybe Aluepäällikkö - Chief of Civil Guard Area?
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JTV
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3767

Post by JTV » 28 Aug 2014, 22:12

John Hilly wrote:Well another guess then.
Maybe Aluepäällikkö - Chief of Civil Guard Area?
Excellent - that is exactly the correct answer. :thumbsup: Pair of these badges worn in tunic indicated that the person wearing them was either Chief of Civil Guard Area or member of Civil Guard Area Headquarters. Over to you John Hilly. :milwink:

Below is partial scan from page 52 of book Suojeluskuntapuvut (Civil Guard Uniforms) by Stig Roudasmaa. As mentioned year 1929 Finnish Civil Guard (Suojeluskunta) introduced three badges which were to worn in tunic collar or epaulets to indicate Chiefs various level and members serving in various levels of headquarters. These badges:
14. Badge for those serving in Civil Guard General Headquarters and Civil Guard Officer School.
15. Badge for Chiefs of Civil Guard Districts and those serving in headquarters of each Civil Guard District.
16. Badge for Chiefs of Civil Guard Areas and those serving in headquarters of each Civil Guard Area.

Image

The big picture that I wanted to bring into attention with this was that while during World War 2 Civil Guard was tightly connection to Finnish Armed Forces, their ranks systems had very little in common. In fact one could say that the way its officer ranks were based to service positions (with officer ranks like Platoon Leader, Company Commander and Battalion Commander) Civil Guard rank system resembled more the early rank system of Soviet Red Army, than the traditional military rank system used by Finnish Armed Forces. The reason for such rank system was that especially early on Civil Guard had to facilitate into its rank system substantial number of people, who had not done any military training and therefore had no military rank. Those serving in various HQ levels also got their own rank markings early on, but just serving in the HQ did not necessarily indicate that the person was also an officer. Being Civil Guard officer was typically indicated with separate fir-branch badges or emroidery worn in tunic collar. Needless to say Armed Forces did not officially recognize Civil Guard ranks.

This picture from a recently ended auction in huuto.net website shows nicely how these badges were used in tunic m/27:
Image
In this case the "S" badges in epaulets indicate Civil Guard as service branch, "fir branch" badges in collar indicate Civil Guard Officer and "rose with swords" badges in epaulets indicate either District Chief or someone who served in district HQ.

While Civil Guard mostly used the same basic uniform models m/22, m/27 and m/36 as Armed Forces, there were also some unique developments and much of the insignias worn in Civil Guard uniforms were quite different from the ones used by Armed Forces.

Another source book about the subject is Kaluunat ja rähinäremmit (Rank Stripes and Command Straps) by Pekka Aarniaho. Picture of the particular badge can be found on picture page 79 and text part in page 305. Although if one wants to a good about the subject, I recommend getting the one written by Roudasmaa.

Jarkko
Last edited by JTV on 29 Aug 2014, 18:15, edited 1 time in total.


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John Hilly
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3768

Post by John Hilly » 29 Aug 2014, 17:17

Thanks Jarkko!
Although my answer was an educated guess, I excluded District Chief out, because I found a Decree of the Civil Guards from 1920's, which pronounced that District Chiefs were in Colonel rank officers.
So the heraldic rose must've been theirs.

I went to library today and found a book 'Sarkatakkien Armeija', which also has pictures of those badges etc confirming my guess.

A new one:

LtGen Harald Öhqvist had a daily habit, which Marshal Mannerheim denounced rediculous or something in his memories. With this mocking Mannerheim wanted to underline, why his attitude on Öhqvist became so negative.

What was this habit of Gen Öhqvist?

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3769

Post by John Hilly » 31 Aug 2014, 12:08

This habit of his required somethig to be done twice a day. What?

With best, J-P :milwink:

Edit: I misspelled General's name. It shoud be Öhquist.
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3770

Post by John Hilly » 02 Sep 2014, 17:26

Although Mannerheim underestimated it, Gen. Öhquist's habit must have some military sense.
While serving as a Duty Officer in OPS/FINBATT/UNDOF in 1982 I had to do the same as Öhquist did every morning and evening.

With best, J-P :milwink:
Last edited by John Hilly on 03 Sep 2014, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Karelia
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3771

Post by Karelia » 02 Sep 2014, 17:50

Just a guess: he showered/bathed?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3772

Post by John Hilly » 02 Sep 2014, 18:05

Yeah, but Mannerheim might have done the same also after coming back from morning's ride.
Besides I hadn't time to shower in the mornings in FINBATT/ UNDOF. It was always sauna after work.

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3773

Post by John Hilly » 03 Sep 2014, 15:48

Results of this habit / practice was written down on the Log Book.

J-P :milwink:
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Karelia
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3774

Post by Karelia » 03 Sep 2014, 21:39

He went to loo for nr. 2...?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3775

Post by John Hilly » 04 Sep 2014, 14:00

Heh, heh. I certainly did first thing in the morning to ease off privious night's beer load.

Actually Mannerheim didn't propably know of Öhquist's habit until he read Öhquist's book after the wars. So it didn't matter, as such, to Mannerheim's negative attitude towards Öhquist during the wars. He just used this manner or habit (quite unjustly) in his memoirs to put down Öhquist. Öhquist was propably only Finnish General to argue with our beloved Marshal. 8-)

Edit: Öhquist used his personal diary; we in FINBATT wrote our's to the Log Book.

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3776

Post by John Hilly » 05 Sep 2014, 12:46

Ok. Hopefully the final hint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rhvtzzmq-Y

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3777

Post by JTV » 08 Sep 2014, 06:39

He checked the weather (especially temperature) and marked it into his diary?

Jarkko

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John Hilly
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3778

Post by John Hilly » 08 Sep 2014, 18:07

Thank You for the correct answer Jarkko!

I haven't got my source at hand right now, but Mannerheim said something like "what can I do with a General who checks the temperature every morning and evening..."

Maybe Mannerheim meant that mesuring temperature was something to be done by lower ranks. Anyhow Öhquist had this habit from early on; at least after coming home from Germany in 1918.

You turn Jarkko.

With best, J-P :milwink:
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3779

Post by JTV » 09 Sep 2014, 21:40

John Hilly wrote:Thank You for the correct answer Jarkko!
Thanks John Hilly. One of my relatives has the same habit as Öhquist, so I had been considering it as a possible answer already before the last hint.

But lets to the next question, which might be quite easy, or difficult - we shall see. It is common knowledge that Finnish military equipment during World War 2 was exceptionally mixed and often from variety of countries. This involves also hand grenades used by Finnish military, which in addition of Finnish-manufactured designs, included hand grenades from six other countries. But what were those six countries?

Jarkko

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

#3780

Post by Juha Tompuri » 10 Sep 2014, 20:37

For me belongs to the class difficult/challenging.

Few (educated)gueses:
German and Russian should belong to the group.
Also French and Hungarian.
The remaining two... Italian and British?

Regards, Juha

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