Date of last arms deliveries from USA during interim?

[John T]

Hi
What was the Date of last arms deliveries from USA during interim peace?



TIA
/John T

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi JT,

Hmmm....

Were there other than artillery pieces and their ammunition during the mentioned period of time?

Regards, Juha

[JTV]

Hi JT,

Hmmm....

Were there other than artillery pieces and their ammunition during the mentioned period of time?

Brewsters and ammo (7.62 x 54R and 12.7 x 99). What I remember Brewsters arrived Finland in March - May of 1940 after being shipped to Norway and assembled in there.

50 million rounds of 7.62 x 54R had been ordered from Winchester in January of 1940 with 21 million rounds delivered in spring of 1940. Rest of the order was cancelled and apparently at least some of it later ended up to Dutch West Indies (KNIL).

Most of the materials probably arrived via Norway and Sweden, which explains why there are for example no shipping manifestos from United States in the Finnish archives and this makes figuring out when they left from USA very difficult.

Jarkko

[Juha Tompuri]

Brewsters and ammo (7.62 x 54R and 12.7 x 99).

I counted them as being delivered during Winter War

50 million rounds of 7.62 x 54R had been ordered from Winchester in January of 1940 with 21 million rounds delivered in spring of 1940.

Thanks, those I forgot.

Rest of the order was cancelled and apparently at least some of it later ended up to Dutch West Indies (KNIL).

After the Winter War Finland had in USA 29 million 7.62 x 53 R rounds that were no more needed. One solution was to sell them to third nation. Negotiations were hold with China and (sic ! ) Netherlands.Seems that ammo were actually bought by Netherland Eastindies Army. 13 million rounds were bought if suitable heavymashineguns could be supplied with them. With help of USA defenceministerium and certain Van Karner Co there were 500 Hotchkiss m1914 mashineguns found from New York which were modified to use 7.62 x 53R ammo. Iver Johnson Co manufactured 2960 barrels for these mg´s and Taller & Cooper Co from New Jersey manufatured the special loading coumbs of 30 rounds. Modified M1914 Hotchkiss is easy to reconnise cause the barrell is 3 inches shorter than the original. Guns were delivered during autumn 1941 last shipment of guns and ammo left New York with boat on 5th december 1941 and they weree send to Dutch East India. Well and Finland had been in War as ally with Germany over 6 months and was supplieing amrs to Allied nation. Quite funny.

( http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1321666 )
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... East+India

Last Finnish-US related arms deal during WWII?

Regards, Juha

[JTV]

Brewsters and ammo (7.62 x 54R and 12.7 x 99).

I counted them as being delivered during Winter War?

Apparently Brewsters left from United States during Winter War, but most did not arrive to Finland until after it. Apparently 12.7 x 99 ammo was to be delivered with the aircraft.

Accidentally I found one archive document written by General Nenonen (in Washington DC) to Minister of Defence Niukkanen in 5th of February 1940. According it deliveries of Brewster fighters (total: 44 aircraft) that had left from United States that far were:
- 13th of January 1940: 11 pcs
- 20th of January 1940: 6 pcs
And deliveries that were about to leave:
- 6th of February 1940: 12 pcs
- 15th of February 1940: 10 pcs
(which is for 39 aircraft total - so there are five aircraft missing)

BTW: I forgot 2,000 flare guns and 600,000 rounds of ammunition for them plus 150,000 rounds for 81-mm mortars. Plus 1,000 prismatic binoculars.

Last Finnish-US related arms deal during WWII?

I would say it was likely the last successful Finnish - US related arms deal during World War 2. Tikkakoski was also trying to find US manufacturer willing to manufacture Suomi-submachinegun with production license surprisingly long - and with terms that would have allowed the particular manufacturer to sell Suomi-submachineguns for example United Kingdom.

Jarkko

[Juha Tompuri]

Brewsters and ammo (7.62 x 54R and 12.7 x 99).

I counted them as being delivered during Winter War?

Apparently Brewsters left from United States during Winter War, but most did not arrive to Finland until after it. Apparently 12.7 x 99 ammo was to be delivered with the aircraft.

As mentioned earlier, I was more thinking about the arms deals that left USA after Winter War.

BTW: I forgot 2,000 flare guns and 600,000 rounds of ammunition for them plus 150,000 rounds for 81-mm mortars.

Thanks for those.

Plus 1,000 prismatic binoculars.

Also in addition to the topic issue, aero engine types were bought from USA
IIRC also narcotics (for medical purposes) were donated(?) to Finland, but IIRC during Winter War.

Regards, Juha

[John T]

Hi JT,

Hmmm....

Were there other than artillery pieces and their ammunition during the mentioned period of time?

The reason I ask is that I just learned that the 9mm parabellum delivered to Swedish from Winchester where labeled as "the Finnish order" in US.
And the last shipment left New York first november 1940, and if the 9mm where considered "Finnish" it might have helped to release them.

So my question should have been more detailed, the last Shipment of arms from US to Petsamo.

I've revived my research after a number of years absence.

What I remember Brewsters arrived Finland in March - May of 1940 after being shipped to Norway and assembled in there.

Assembled at SAAB, Trollhättan. (even if the company name might not been SAAB at that time, not really sure about it)

50 million rounds of 7.62 x 54R had been ordered from Winchester in January of 1940 with 21 million rounds delivered in spring of 1940.

Very shorthand, but if you seen the context
Shipment from S.S Flying Fish (operated by Moore-McCormac line)


Left Narvik on the 27:th March for Tornio in the following railcars. (list of railcar numbers)

Cincere
Finnish embassy Trade department Stockholm.

Hand written: 134 tons of 7.62 mm rounds.
(but that weight also included a couple of rail cars sent next day from Narvik and two earlier routed Bergen-Stockholm.

Most of the materials probably arrived via Norway and Sweden, which explains why there are for example no shipping manifestos from United States in the Finnish archives and this makes figuring out when they left from USA very difficult.

Through Norway, up to second week of April, at least.
At least one US ship toured both Bergen and Trondheim to find somewhere to offload.
The movements of US merchants in and between Norwegian harbours during the first weeks of Weserübung are strange to say the least.
Neither the Germans nor the British dared to get bad press in the US, So they were free to move but advised to stay in port.


Cheers
/John

[stril]

Very shorthand, but if you seen the context
Shipment from S.S Flying Fish (operated by Moore-McCormac line)
Left Narvik on the 27:th March for Tornio in the following railcars. (list of railcar numbers)
Cincere
Finnish embassy Trade department Stockholm.
Hand written: 134 tons of 7.62 mm rounds.
(but that weight also included a couple of rail cars sent next day from Narvik and two earlier routed Bergen-Stockholm.

Interesting information First ever documentation i have seen about Flying Fish and her cargo.
Added a link to some notes about those ships from McCormack line.
regards
stril

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... g#p1517154