Hitler's meeting with Finnish delegation ?

[fenriz]

Hi,
One of Soviet diplomacy document describes a meeting with Hitler and Finnish delgation in early October 1939. In this document Derevyinasky reported that Hitler answered to Finns that they should disagree with requirements of the Soviet Union up to a military conflict.
Source: http://www.histdoc.net/history/NKID1939-10-09.htm
Do you have any info if that was true or false information ?

There is also a second document describes visit of Finnish delegation in Berlin in early October but they have met with Himmler and back to Finland without any support. In document we can read that was a head of intelligence in the Ministry of the Defense of Finland but really it was a delegation from the Finnish-German Society in Finland.
Source: http://www.histdoc.net/history/NKVD1939-10-13.html

[JariL]

The first one is propaganda. Finland did not get any assurances of help from any direction in the Autumn of 1939. If any answer was received from any foreign country it was advise to yield. What is correct is the information that mobilization was taking place. IKL's role in it is again propaganda.

The second one seems ok what comes to the general message namely that Finland would not receive any help. Timing of meetings sounds ok too even if the persons involved have been slightly misidentified.

[fenriz]

Thank you.
Why Derevyinasky reported that propaganda information ? The source info was from Finns and he didnt check it ? Is there any source about this ?

[Fliegende Untertasse]

Interesting.
This misinformative report hints to something that AFAIK has never been seriously studied. Namely the role of Finnish communists in Soviet intelligence.
Field operatives and translators working for Soviets were largely politically motivated Finns. And the best interests of Mother Russia were not of their interest. It was in Finnish communists interest to incite conflict between Finland and USSR to futher their own goal of communism in Finland.

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi,
One of Soviet diplomacy document describes a meeting with Hitler and Finnish delgation in early October 1939. In this document Derevyinasky reported that Hitler answered to Finns that they should disagree with requirements of the Soviet Union up to a military conflict.
Source: http://www.histdoc.net/history/NKID1939-10-09.htm
Do you have any info if that was true or false information ?

There is also a second document describes visit of Finnish delegation in Berlin in early October but they have met with Himmler and back to Finland without any support. In document we can read that was a head of intelligence in the Ministry of the Defense of Finland but really it was a delegation from the Finnish-German Society in Finland.
Source: http://www.histdoc.net/history/NKVD1939-10-13.html

Seems to be the same event of the same right wing group at the both reports.

Thank you.
Why Derevyinasky reported that propaganda information ? The source info was from Finns and he didnt check it ? Is there any source about this ?

IIRC I've once read from about the incompetence of Derevyinasky.

Field operatives and translators working for Soviets were largely politically motivated Finns. And the best interests of Mother Russia were not of their interest. It was in Finnish communists interest to incite conflict between Finland and USSR to futher their own goal of communism in Finland.

Interesting point of view.
Thank you.
Also should be remembered that at dictatorships, the leader was often being told what he wanted/was expected to want to hear.

Regards, Juha

[Karelia]

Interesting.
This misinformative report hints to something that AFAIK has never been seriously studied. Namely the role of Finnish communists in Soviet intelligence.
Field operatives and translators working for Soviets were largely politically motivated Finns. And the best interests of Mother Russia were not of their interest. It was in Finnish communists interest to incite conflict between Finland and USSR to futher their own goal of communism in Finland.

I agree with your conclusions. It seems plausible, even likely, that many of the soviet mistakes and miscalculations concerning the war against Finland were based on false/twisted intelligence information provided by the illusional and unprofessional Finnish communists.

[Lotvonen]

Official Finnish contacts with Germany in October 1939
1. Ex-president Svinhuvud, travelling as a private person, met in Berlin among others H. Himmler and count von der Golz

2. Foreign minister Holsti visited Berlin 21-24 October meeting German foreign minister Neurath

3. General Österman's official visit ? Mentioned as planned but did it take place?

No meetings with Hitler mentioned.

Source: Max Jakobson. Diplomaattien talvisota, 7th printing, Vantaa 2002

[peeved]

List of Documents on German Foreign Policy from http://www.histdoc.net/pdf/Series%20D,vol8,List.pdf also appears not to lend support to Derevyinasky's fairy tales. Makes one wonder if all Russian archive papers are actual, period documents.

Markus

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

3. General Österman's official visit ? Mentioned as planned but did it take place?
No meetings with Hitler mentioned.

Österman visited Germany 21.3.-2.4.1938. It is possible that there has been some plans to send him to Germany at May when Hitler was celebrating he's 50th anniversary. Anyhow Finns send only civilians with low diplomatic level: FO's department chief Rantakari and ex-ministers Ehrnrooth and Hynninen.