Finnish Air Force II lists 9 shot down SB bombers (4x 54 SBAP, 2x 31 SBAP, confirmed from Soviet sources) of the total of 25 planes met, three damaged ones and additionally one unwitnessed case.Slon-76 wrote:No. It so. (I speak only about Winter war).Harri wrote:These figures you showed are far exaggerating because many of these planes were shot down on the Finnish side and the shot down planes could be found from the ground.
For example. On January, 17. From 16 planes SB has returned 9, two more have made landing not on the air station, but have been repaired. In fight it is brought down 5 SB. In detail about fight on January, 17 here, but in Russian:
http: // http://www.allaces.ru/p/episode.php? id=1047
I can still more many examples.
54 SBAP claimed it had shot down eleven Fokker D.XXI fighters of the ten LLv. 24 planes that participated in the battle. That is an amazing achievement.
The complain I told about concers official soviet papers. There are still missing information.Slon-76 wrote:I can. I work with Russian documents, instead of with the literature.Harri wrote:In these cases the evidences for a true victory are rather strong. Finnish researchers have noted that all needed Soviet documents have not you been published for some reason so we can't say anything for sure.
As far as I have understood this is from the original Soviet sources based on the research of Carl-Fredrik Geust (with Russian collegues). Like I mentioned there is a conflict between the text and the table on page 134.Slon-76 wrote:No. I speak about fight 13.02.40. 11.02.40 I-16 have not been shot down. By the way. This fight conducted not 49 IAP, but group of captain Tkachenko.Harri wrote:You mean air combat on 11.2.1940 north from Lake Ladoga between three Finnish Gladiators from Flying Squadron 26 against (about) fifteen Soviet I-16 fighters from the 49 IAP?
For 13.2.1940 FiAF II lists three SBs shot down and three unwitnessed SBs shot down (from 39 SBAP). One I-15bis (I-152) of 49 IAP was shot down and there is also another unwitnessed claim. Two Finnish Gladiators were shot down both flown by Danish volunteer pilots Lt Kalmberg (+) and Lt. Ulrich (WIA). 49 IAP claimed also one Fokker D.XXI shot down but that didn't happen.
Unwitnessed claims were not counted to official records (at least to pilot's personal records, but sometimes to the squadron or regiment record) until the plane wreck or the pilot was later found. Also land units could confirm unclear cases.
No, just one Finnish Fokker D.XXI was lost according to this book. Was that loss the fighter of 7 or 25 IAP?Slon-76 wrote:I among those people from which K.Stenmann received the information on the Soviet losses. My surname is on page 5. Data on loss I-16 11.02.40 - are not present.Harri wrote:Accordind to a text in the book Finnish Air Force II 1928 - 1940 (2006) by K. Keskinen, K. Partonen and K. Stenman one I-16 was shot down (page 133/134).
I can see three Russian names there. Welcome to the AHForum.