Finnish helmet
Finnish helmet
Hello.
This helmet was founded on Karjalan Kannas on the place of battlefield of summer 1944.
After cleaning on the left side appear this interesting picture.
Someone know,which units can use helmets with such decals?..
This helmet was founded on Karjalan Kannas on the place of battlefield of summer 1944.
After cleaning on the left side appear this interesting picture.
Someone know,which units can use helmets with such decals?..
Re: Finnish helmet
Hello and welcome!Degtarev wrote: After cleaning on the left side appear this interesting picture.
Could you please repost the image since I'm not seeing it.
Martti
Re: Finnish helmet
Where was it found? Looks like it could have belonged to someone at the 122.Infanterie-Division?Degtarev wrote:Sorry, forget show foto in first post
Martti
Re: Finnish helmet
- Juha Tompuri
- Forum Staff
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Re: Finnish helmet
Welcome to the Forum, Dektarev
Seems to be an Austro-Hungarian m/17
Hardly used by Germans 1944?
http://www.pottia.net/pottia/finnhelm.htm
Main page:
http://www.pottia.net/pottia/index.htm
Regards, Juha
Seems to be an Austro-Hungarian m/17
Hardly used by Germans 1944?
http://www.pottia.net/pottia/finnhelm.htm
Main page:
http://www.pottia.net/pottia/index.htm
Regards, Juha
Re: Finnish helmet
IMHO it was more likely in Finnish use during World War 2, than in German use. The helmet model seems to be Austro-Hungarian M/1917 or M/1918, which were a common models among the helmets bought by Finnish military in 1920's. The basic appearence of these helmet models is very similar to German M/1916 and M/1917 helmets also bought in 1920's, but can be easily indentified from location of rivets.Degtarev wrote:It was founded near Siiranmaki area.
And on the front side of helmet we can see other intresting thing-remains of skull.
May be colours belongs to some regiment?..
The side decal is an unusual one, I have not seen that one before. However the skull marking was used in some extent (it was still relatively rare) - some Finnish infantry, light infantry and cavalry units used this marking.
This webpage shows some variations of the skull marking and mentions the units that used them:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finn-Helmets.asp
EDIT: It seems that Juha was bit faster this time, so I remove the link to pottia.net website.
Jarkko
Re: Finnish helmet
Juha Tompuri wrote:Welcome to the Forum, Dektarev
Thanks,Juha
IMHO swastika indicates that helmet can belong to estonian legioners from JR 200..
Re: Finnish helmet
II/JR 200 was initially subordinated to 10th Division. It fought at Raivola area and later withdrew to VT line at Sahakylä but there was heavy fights until battalion was moved to rest at Vammeljärvi. Battalion losses during this period were 14 killed, 37 wounded and 58 missed in action.
On 12th June battalion was subordinated to 2nd Division and next day it was ordered back to VT line at Ahijärvi. Soviets broke through the VT line on 16.6.1944 at Kuuterselkä but Estonians hold the lines two more days. After that battalion was ordered to withdraw and it was moved to Bay of Viborg. Losses were 12 + 52 + 7.
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There exists photos of Estonian soldiers wearing ordinary German WW II helmets with the typical early war German helmet markings but I have never seen that kinds of WW I helmets with them. The position of the swastika is clearly German because it stands "in a diamond" shape (corner down). Finnish swastika would be typically at right angles. So I don't think this emblem would be Finnish, not even a Civil Guard unit emblem. Only if the swastika is red it could belong to some anti-aircraft unit.
The only explanation could be that this second-hand helmet has belonged to the helmet batches delivered from Germany to Finland during the WW II in 1941 or in 1944.
On 12th June battalion was subordinated to 2nd Division and next day it was ordered back to VT line at Ahijärvi. Soviets broke through the VT line on 16.6.1944 at Kuuterselkä but Estonians hold the lines two more days. After that battalion was ordered to withdraw and it was moved to Bay of Viborg. Losses were 12 + 52 + 7.
----
There exists photos of Estonian soldiers wearing ordinary German WW II helmets with the typical early war German helmet markings but I have never seen that kinds of WW I helmets with them. The position of the swastika is clearly German because it stands "in a diamond" shape (corner down). Finnish swastika would be typically at right angles. So I don't think this emblem would be Finnish, not even a Civil Guard unit emblem. Only if the swastika is red it could belong to some anti-aircraft unit.
The only explanation could be that this second-hand helmet has belonged to the helmet batches delivered from Germany to Finland during the WW II in 1941 or in 1944.
Re: Finnish helmet
Re: Finnish helmet
Hi
Second helmet: III/JR 47, the yellow marking is the shilouette of a church, the Cathedral in Helsinki.
First helmet: I dont think the painted sign is a German one, eventhough the swastica is standing with the corner down, but have not a clue either wich Finnish unit it could be,,,
Best regards
Esa K
Second helmet: III/JR 47, the yellow marking is the shilouette of a church, the Cathedral in Helsinki.
First helmet: I dont think the painted sign is a German one, eventhough the swastica is standing with the corner down, but have not a clue either wich Finnish unit it could be,,,
Best regards
Esa K
Re: Finnish helmet
As one can see in the link posted by Jarkko (http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finn-Helmets.asp), there are examples of Finnish helmets bearing decals similar to the one on this helmet, for example here: http://www.mosinnagant.net/images/m16HginIT-AA.jpg.
They seem to be unit emblems, so I assume they are pre-war, peace-time markings. But as Harri pointed out, the Finnish swastika was always at right angles, not tilted as in this helmet. I still wouldn't exclude the possibility that this is an obscure Finnish unit emblem, or perhaps a local variation of one. It really doesn't seem German to me, but I'm no expert.
They seem to be unit emblems, so I assume they are pre-war, peace-time markings. But as Harri pointed out, the Finnish swastika was always at right angles, not tilted as in this helmet. I still wouldn't exclude the possibility that this is an obscure Finnish unit emblem, or perhaps a local variation of one. It really doesn't seem German to me, but I'm no expert.
Perhaps the helmet was repainted in Finland, and the paint has since eroded to expose the original German decal? Just speculating; like I said above, the decal doesn't seem quite German to me...Interesting version about second-hand helmet from Germany,but why finnish soldier dont clean swastika and paint scull.
Re: Finnish helmet
The swastika on the side of the helmet is very much like the one in the Wehrmacht helmets (but the eagle above seems to be missing - or there is something else in its place and I cannot even begin to guess what it could be) that somehow were delivered to Finland in 1944.
Those helmets, described by Stig Roudasmaa in Sotahistoriallinen Aikakauskirja (Vol. XV, IIRC), were of the more modern type, so that's another contraindication. OTOH the Wehrmacht *could* have used the older model, painted the insignia and later sold them as surplus to Finland.
PS Roudasmaa mentions, as an anecdote, that the Wehrmacht eagles and swastikas caused a certain amount of irritation in the members of the Allied Control Commission who saw the helmets on the heads of post-war conscripts in Helsinki.
Those helmets, described by Stig Roudasmaa in Sotahistoriallinen Aikakauskirja (Vol. XV, IIRC), were of the more modern type, so that's another contraindication. OTOH the Wehrmacht *could* have used the older model, painted the insignia and later sold them as surplus to Finland.
PS Roudasmaa mentions, as an anecdote, that the Wehrmacht eagles and swastikas caused a certain amount of irritation in the members of the Allied Control Commission who saw the helmets on the heads of post-war conscripts in Helsinki.
Re: Finnish helmet
Finnish soldier wearing a German helmet with a German decal at Ladoga Karelia during August 1944. SA-Kuva 160011.
Re: Finnish helmet
Another, SA 153467: Viipuri, June 1944.