Sweden's attitude towards Finland

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

During Winter War Sweden gave more support to Finland than any other country. During Interim Peace and Continuous War situation was totally different. Disparity was big.

1. Food. After Winter War Food was a big problem in Finland. During 1942 people died for lack of food, especially POWs but also East Karelian and Finnish civilians.

Finns had tried to get foodstuff directly as well as through the International Red Cross, but Sweden's answer was negative until 1944.

2. Jews. In the beginning of December 1942 Finland asked permission to send 150 Center European refugees to Sweden. Almost all of them Jewish. Prime minister Hanson's answer was negative and quite creepy. By keeping refugees in Finland, "Finland would prove that it was independent, by protecting at least so far those Jewish refugees." [underline is mine].

At summer 1943 Sweden answered "no" to 14 Jewish child (Center European). Sweden's explanation was, that acceptance of those children might lead to a Jewish "invasion" from Finland to Sweden. Nevertheless, there was no more than 2.000 Jews in Finland, own citizens and refugees included.

3. Clothings. At Autumn 1941 Finns did try to buy clothings to 41.000 East Karelian civilians but got negative answer from Sweden. Finns were told that the reason was the fear of British blockade.

A small mount of clothings was send to POWs at 1943, but after that Sweden didn't send more clothings until the war was over. One promise was even taken back at 1944 "because of political reasons."

Shortly: Sweden was boycotting Finland.

What might have been the reason(s)?

[kriegsmarine221]

Perhaps Sweden didn't want to anger the Western allies by aiding Finland, which was fighting the continuation war against the USSR.

[Seppo Koivisto]

Sweden would not risk interruption of the Gothenburg traffic.

http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/66171

A committee set up to help Finland and Norway was established in Sweden in 1941. Its chairman was Torsten Nothin, an influential Swedish politician. In December 1941 he appealed to the Swedish government to provide help to Finnish children under the authority of The International Red Cross. This plea had no results. The delivery of great amounts of food to Finland, which was now at war with Great Britain, had automatically caused reactions among the allies against the Swedish imports through Gothenburg. This included the import of oil, which was essential for the Swedish navy and air force. Oil was later used successfully to force a reduction in commerce between Sweden and Finland. The contradiction between Sweden´s essential political interests and humanitarian help was solved in a way that did not harm the country´s vital political interests. Instead of delivering help to Finland, Finnish children were transported to Sweden through the organisations that had already been created.

http://www.mareud.com/ww_losses/gb_index.html

During the remainder of 1941 and throughout 1942 the Gothenburg traffic continued without interruption. As a result of the war's expansion, however, the number of countries with which Sweden could trade was sharply reduced and the British cut down on the Swedish navicert quotas more and more. In order to secure continued deliveries (es­pecially of oil) from overseas and to increase them if possible, the Secretary-General of the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Erik Boheman, flew to London and Washington during the autumn of 1942. The British took advantage of this demarche in order to request that the Swedes allow two Norwegian ships lying at anchor in Gothenburg, the Dicto and the Lionel, to sail for Great Britain with a cargo of ball bearings. At Great Britain's suggestion the Americans made this a condition for continued oil deliveries.

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Perhaps Sweden didn't want to anger the Western allies by aiding Finland, which was fighting the continuation war against the USSR.

Sweden would not risk interruption of the Gothenburg traffic.

Some years ago my opinion was the very same.

Food

Finland's food problems started after Winter War. At Autumn 1940 Finland and Sweden made a commercial contract for half year; there was no food with. Same result in a contract made 28.3.1941. Sweden's no-food policy continued until 1944.

- You can say that Sweden took distance to Finland almost one year before Barbarossa. Blockade can't be the reason because Finland wasn't on British black list yet.

Activities of Allies

Brittany's Red Cross send ca 19 MIO packages with foodstuff to British POWs, mainly in Germany. From Canada was send 700.000 tons of foodstuff to occupied Greece; Finland's grain harvest was ca 350.000 tons/year throughout the war.

Mannerheim send a letter to International Red Cross office in Geneva at 1.3.1942 and asked aid for Russian POWs. USA:s Red Cross send food and medics at same year, but Swedish Red Cross reacted not until 1944.

- Allies did send foodstuff to Germany, to Germany's occupied countries and also to Finland. Blockade was not a problem. Why had it been a problem for Sweden?

Swedish war-time policy

Sweden did send ball-bearings, ball-bearing steel and ball-bearing capable iron ore to Germany. Ball-bearing deliveries were growing systematic from 1937 to 1943 and deliveries were on high level still at 1944.


and 1200 px version
http://www.jyrkinen.fi/historia/kuvat/b ... s-1200.png

When Barbarossa broke out, Swedish Red Cross donated 10 ambulances to Finnish Red Cross. Purpose was to transport wounded German soldiers from Finland to Swedish border and further with train through Sweden to southern Norway. More than 5.000 deliveries until mid-summer 1943.

- Ball-bearings to Germany was ok, but clothings to East-Karelian civilians was not accepted. Won't fit with the idea of blockade.

Jewish question

End of 1942 Finnish government did try to send a group of Jewish refugees to Sweden, but Swedish government's answer was negative. Anyhow, at the same time (end of 1942) Sweden accepted almost 10.000 refugees from Norway and one year later more than 10.000 refugees from Denmark. Some half of them were Jewish.

- So, 150 people from Finland was too much, but more than 20.000 from Norway and Denmark was accepted. Any good explanations?

A Boycott - summa summarum

Blockade is a common argument, but British blockade was not absolute and didn't deny humanitarian help. And Swedes didn't care much about it. Other common argument is, that Swedish policy had been neutral or even anti-German, but this wont work either. It wasn't.

Personally I have found out strange explanations only. The question is still open.

[Mark V]

Hi,

About large export of strategically crucial raw-materials, and finished products to Germany, (German desire to control) any imports to Finland, and central-European refugees in Finland (seen as undesirables by Germany and due to destruction if in their hands):

From June-1940 Sweden was surrounded by one of the mightiest and most experienced land armies of all history. Army which was idle, just playing card games and getting bored..

From June-1941 Sweden was geographically even more surrounded by that same army (south-west-north-east), and while Wehrmacht was fully engaged, almost everyone believed, atleast till winter 1941/42 that Germans would make short work of Soviets (their own western Allies nearly counted them as finished).

The fact that Sweden ended up avoiding the war does not mean that it wasn't in danger of peril in those years, if following anything else than realpolitik.

Even the western Allied understood realities, and kept an lifeline open to world seas for Sweden - same time as Swedish iron ore kept Ruhr industries working !! They knew that by cutting the sea-lanes, Sweden would fall to Germanys hands.

Don't forget that Swedish help to Finland, while diminished, continued all through long years of Interim Peace and Continuation War. Commerce. Doctors. Nurses. Construction workers. Army volunteers.


Regards

[Mark V]

End of 1942 Finnish government did try to send a group of Jewish refugees to Sweden, but Swedish government's answer was negative. Anyhow, at the same time (end of 1942) Sweden accepted almost 10.000 refugees from Norway and one year later more than 10.000 refugees from Denmark. Some half of them were Jewish.

- So, 150 people from Finland was too much, but more than 20.000 from Norway and Denmark was accepted. Any good explanations?

Hi,

The same issue as today. If the refugees are already in country which is deemed "safe" (i know about shipload of those unfortunates from Finland to Germany, but we are talking what is in the minds of Swedish decisionmakers at the time) why an earth accept them to Sweden ? Accepting them would propably cause political problems with Germany, and demands of deportation. Let the Finns handle their problem, we have enough of our own.

Norwegian and Danish refugees on the other hand had no-where else to go than Sweden. And Sweden did not suggest to us: "Hey. Can you take some of our Jewish refugees ?"



Regards

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Don't forget that Swedish help to Finland, while diminished, continued all through long years of Interim Peace and Continuation War. Commerce. Doctors. Nurses. Construction workers. Army volunteers.

I respect highly those Swedish private persons, who helped Finland during war.

Anyhow, I opened this thread to examine Swedish government's policy. There is a big difference between Hanson's policy during Winter War and other hand during Continuous war. What was the reason? What did change?

I don't take possible that British had accepted ball-bearing deliveries and at the same time refused humanitarian aid to East-Karelian civilians. - A piece of history is missing or I just don't understand.

The fact that Sweden ended up avoiding the war does not mean that it wasn't in danger of peril in those years, if following anything else than realpolitik.

That's quite true, but if Sweden was afraid of Germany, it should have supported Finland more than during Winter War. Like it supported Germany's war-production throughout the war.

One possible explanation naturally is, that it was Germany which wanted Sweden to keep distance to Finland. Germany's interest was to keep Finland week and humble - and hooked to herself which gave it possibility to control Finland's policy.

If the refugees are already in country which is deemed "safe" why an earth accept them to Sweden ?

When asking permission to send 150 refugees to Sweden, Finnish government told public that it didn't keep Finland as a safe country anymore. Finns woke up to holokaust in the end of 1942 and on that time Finland was totally dependent on Germany's food supplies: 30-40% of food came from Germany.

[John T]

I respect highly those Swedish private persons, who helped Finland during war.

Anyhow, I opened this thread to examine Swedish government's policy. There is a big difference between Hanson's policy during Winter War and other hand during Continuous war. What was the reason? What did change?

Because Finland had choosen to join Nazi-Germany against the Allies-
Between June 1941 and September 1944 Finland where part of the Axis countries.

Cheers
/John T

[Mark V]

One possible explanation naturally is, that it was Germany which wanted Sweden to keep distance to Finland. Germany's interest was to keep Finland week and humble - and hooked to herself which gave it possibility to control Finland's policy.

I think this is the reason.

Firstly, Germany had to have Finland in very short leach that they would be sure of co-operation, and Finns joining the war in June-1941.

Secondly, while Finland had joined the war, Germans soon found out that they could not simply order or dictate Finns to do anything. Generally the operational/tactical aims of both countries were the same, and co-operation was good, but when the aims collided, Finns did what they pleased, AS LONG AS it did not jeopardize the vital imports of foodstuffs and other products. Germans made sure that Finns could not accumulate any meaningfull stockpiles of food, other than natural year-cycle (late summer to next years mid-summer).

Thirdly, Germany needed the raw-materials/products which Finland produced: nickel, copper, vanadium, paper, plywood, etc.


Regards


PS. Just reading old National Security Agency (NSA) reports about German radio intelligence operations during WW2. Funny tidbit. Germans got in early 1943 assistance from Finns that helped them to crack US diplomatic "strip-cipher". The document claims that Finns had got the solution earlierly, but only helped Germans when Germans came up something valuable to barter with Finnish radio intelligence (it does not say what was barteded: it may had been intel materiel, of for example radio equipment). Finns had to pay dearly for weapons purchased from Germany. I guess it was 2-way street

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

There is a big difference between Hanson's policy during Winter War and other hand during Continuous war. What was the reason? What did change?

Because Finland had choosen to join Nazi-Germany against the Allies-
Between June 1941 and September 1944 Finland where part of the Axis countries.

Cheers
/John T

Actually, it was Germany, which changed her stance towards Finland and Finland was against Russia and Allies were against Finland... Perhaps a good subject for an another thread.

But, back to topic.

What you wrote is true but leaves too many questions open. And time-period wont fit (summer 1940 - 1944).

In addition Sweden's own attitude towards Germany was not "keep-distance" at all. Growing amount of ball-bearings is only one thing which is telling pro-German actions. (Btw, what was the strongest pressure Germany pointed towards Sweden? Was there any?)

With ball-bearing steel you'll get the same kind of graph:


Bigger version: http://www.jyrkinen.fi/historia/kuvat/b ... l-1200.png

Swedish government was willing to send ball-bearings and bb-material to Germany, but not food to Finland, not even to Russian POWs! You'll come soon to an odd conclusion: Swedish government took more distance to Finland than to nazi-Germany.

At the same time Swedish press was pro-Finnish or even ultra-Finnish with a few exceptions.

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

One possible explanation naturally is, that it was Germany which wanted Sweden to keep distance to Finland. Germany's interest was to keep Finland week and humble - and hooked to herself which gave it possibility to control Finland's policy.

Thirdly, Germany needed the raw-materials/products which Finland produced: nickel, copper, vanadium, paper, plywood, etc.

Through the eyes of Berlin, nickel was The Big Thing in Finland. Those other raw materials were important and Finland was also as a buffer between Red Army and Swedish iron mines.

Otherwise non-Aryan Finland didn't have much value - not until 1943.

What Germans were thinking about Finland's military strength? Arms supplies to Finland during Interim Peace gives the answer. In Finnish history-books amounts of arms are generally described large, but I won't agree with this. When Continuous War broke out, Finnish army was old-fashioned:
- Army had 1.827 cannons from which only 59 were modern and almost 500 cannons were from 19th century. Technology of 1887 de Banges was more near US-civil war than WW2.
- Germany didn't sell tanks at all (until 1944).
- FAF had got only 26 old-fashioned fighters (Morane-Saulnier and Curtis 75) and no bombers at all (until 1943).

This all tells, that Germany didn't want to see Finish army strong. And makes place for an explanation, that Germany wanted Sweden to keep distance to Finland.

[John T]

There is a big difference between Hanson's policy during Winter War and other hand during Continuous war. What was the reason? What did change?

Because Finland had choosen to join Nazi-Germany against the Allies-
Between June 1941 and September 1944 Finland where part of the Axis countries.

Cheers
/John T

Actually, it was Germany, which changed her stance towards Finland and Finland was against Russia and Allies were against Finland... Perhaps a good subject for an another thread.

But, back to topic.

What you wrote is true but leaves too many questions open. And time-period wont fit (summer 1940 - 1944).

But if you want to continue the discussion you can't dismiss Finlands association with Germany.
It's the major factor in Swedish Finnish relations 41-44.

Cheers
/John T.

[John T]

During Winter War Sweden gave more support to Finland than any other country. During Interim Peace and Continuous War situation was totally different. Disparity was big.

During The trade negotiations summer 1940 Sweden gave Finland 90 MSEK in new credits.
The trade balance where roughly 10:1 in Swedish favour.
I would not call that a Blockade.
And Swedish volunteers material aid to Finland initiated during the winter war included 132 000 tons of Grain and 1,1 Miljon Tons of Butter.

1. Food. After Winter War Food was a big problem in Finland. During 1942 people died for lack of food, especially POWs but also East Karelian and Finnish civilians.

As Finland where part of the Axis, the Allies did not allow Sweden to trade commodities to the Axis which Sweden her self imported through the Gothenburg traffic.
And as Swedish and Finish agriculture where rather similar both countries crops (as a percentage of last year) was pretty similar during the war.

Finns had tried to get foodstuff directly as well as through the International Red Cross, but Sweden's answer was negative until 1944.

Yes, Swedes Volunteers did actually prefer to help civilians in occupied Norway. But Finnish children where also given refuge in Sweden so it wasn't a clear cut picture.

2. Jews. In the beginning of December 1942 Finland asked permission to send 150 Center European refugees to Sweden. Almost all of them Jewish. Prime minister Hanson's answer was negative and quite creepy. By keeping refugees in Finland, "Finland would prove that it was independent, by protecting at least so far those Jewish refugees." [underline is mine].

I do SERIOUSLY question your source.
Could you provide us with the source and when/ to whom it was said. It's simply doesn't make sense to me.

At summer 1943 Sweden answered "no" to 14 Jewish child (Center European). Sweden's explanation was, that acceptance of those children might lead to a Jewish "invasion" from Finland to Sweden. Nevertheless, there was no more than 2.000 Jews in Finland, own citizens and refugees included.

Same here, you claim "Sweden's explanation was" as if it was the official line? Source, Who said it? to whom? and when?
Summer 1943 Sweden started to extract Jews on a methodical way from both Central Europe and Norway.

3. Clothings. At Autumn 1941 Finns did try to buy clothings to 41.000 East Karelian civilians but got negative answer from Sweden. Finns were told that the reason was the fear of British blockade.

A small mount of clothings was send to POWs at 1943, but after that Sweden didn't send more clothings until the war was over. One promise was even taken back at 1944 "because of political reasons."

Yes, and you can't take that as a fair explanation?

Shortly: Sweden was boycotting Finland.

What might have been the reason(s)?

Sweden DID In summer 1940 extend her credits to Finland with 90 MSEK.
During 1942 and 43 Sweden did add a Credit of 46 MSEK to pay for Finnish purchases of foodstuffs in Denmark.
Sweden DID after the armistice Extended her Credits to Finland with 157 MSEK as a Rebuilding the Nation Loan and
Wrote of interests of 50 MSEK and Export Credit's of additional 87 MSEK

So According to Hjalmar Krogius "Handelspolitik i krigstid" Finland got in total a Credit from Sweden of 542.1 MSEK during 1939-45.

cheers
/John

[John T]

Perhaps Sweden didn't want to anger the Western allies by aiding Finland, which was fighting the continuation war against the USSR.

Sweden would not risk interruption of the Gothenburg traffic.

Some years ago my opinion was the very same.

Food

Finland's food problems started after Winter War. At Autumn 1940 Finland and Sweden made a commercial contract for half year; there was no food with. Same result in a contract made 28.3.1941. Sweden's no-food policy continued until 1944.

- You can say that Sweden took distance to Finland almost one year before Barbarossa. Blockade can't be the reason because Finland wasn't on British black list yet.

Finland could not afford to buy food from Sweden, so they had to prioritize other stuff.

Activities of Allies

Brittany's Red Cross send ca 19 MIO packages with foodstuff to British POWs, mainly in Germany. From Canada was send 700.000 tons of foodstuff to occupied Greece; Finland's grain harvest was ca 350.000 tons/year throughout the war.

Mannerheim send a letter to International Red Cross office in Geneva at 1.3.1942 and asked aid for Russian POWs. USA:s Red Cross send food and medics at same year, but Swedish Red Cross reacted not until 1944.

- Allies did send foodstuff to Germany, to Germany's occupied countries and also to Finland. Blockade was not a problem. Why had it been a problem for Sweden?

Check the availability of food in Canada compared to Sweden crop year of 1941 . And why should Sweden all of a sudden have such an abundance of food when you say that Finns died of malnutrition?

Swedish war-time policy

Sweden did send ball-bearings, ball-bearing steel and ball-bearing capable iron ore to Germany. Ball-bearing deliveries were growing systematic from 1937 to 1943 and deliveries were on high level still at 1944.

Germany Paid for the goods.
And Sweden needed to trade and Normal trade where OK according to the Anglo-Swedish wartrade negotioations.
Note that Sweden never officially sold the Germans arms or anything Imported to Sweden during the war.
(a number of Fishing vessels where built in Sweden on German navy specifications but the contracts where placed by proxies so it was found out by Swedish government at delivery.) But No officially endorsed export of arms or imported goods.

When Barbarossa broke out, Swedish Red Cross donated 10 ambulances to Finnish Red Cross. Purpose was to transport wounded German soldiers from Finland to Swedish border and further with train through Sweden to southern Norway. More than 5.000 deliveries until mid-summer 1943.

- Ball-bearings to Germany was ok, but clothings to East-Karelian civilians was not accepted. Won't fit with the idea of blockade.

Not Your Idea of a Blockade...
You fail to see the difference of normal trade, the official work from British side is Medlicott "teh economic blockade" - it will sort out some of your questions.

Jewish question

End of 1942 Finnish government did try to send a group of Jewish refugees to Sweden, but Swedish government's answer was negative. Anyhow, at the same time (end of 1942) Sweden accepted almost 10.000 refugees from Norway and one year later more than 10.000 refugees from Denmark. Some half of them were Jewish.

- So, 150 people from Finland was too much, but more than 20.000 from Norway and Denmark was accepted. Any good explanations?

Source Please.

Personally I have found out strange explanations only. The question is still open.

I have tried to present something I believe is rather factual, but I do not deny that Swedish goverments ppolicy where aimed at keeping her own citizens fed and alive rather than morally superior to any other country in Europe.
And I have no problem to discuss such things either.
It does though require some distance between my ego and the actions of my countrymen 70 years ago.


Cheers
/John T

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

But if you want to continue the discussion you can't dismiss Finlands association with Germany.

Yes, Finland was in a war on the same side as Germany. But Sweden's no-food policy started before the war, at summer 1940. Germany sold arms to Finland first time at August 1940 and military conversations started several months later. Did Sweden know half year earlier what would happen?

As Finland where part of the Axis, the Allies did not allow Sweden to trade commodities to the Axis which Sweden her self imported through the Gothenburg traffic.

Allies did accept humanitarian aid. They also accepted increase ball-bearing export, iron ore export and 50% increase of Swedish total commercial export to Germany. Was Finland, through the eyes of Allies, worse than Germany?

And as Swedish and Finish agriculture where rather similar both countries crops (as a percentage of last year) was pretty similar during the war.

Very possible. Could You please tell me a some "Sweden's agriculture's history" or something alike with has harvest statistic. (Swedish, English, Finnish).

Yes, Swedes Volunteers did actually prefer to help civilians in occupied Norway. But Finnish children where also given refuge in Sweden so it wasn't a clear cut picture.

History - a human life - is never a black and white matter. Neither the destiny of those children.

I do SERIOUSLY question your source.
Could you provide us with the source and when/ to whom it was said. It's simply doesn't make sense to me.

I think the best source is "Hannu Rautkallio: Holokaustilta pelastetut". Rautkallio is a serious historian who has written several books about Finnish Jews during WW2.

He's describing Finnish governments trials and Hansson's answer at p 436.

Swedish policy in this "Jews from Finland" matter changed totally at summer 1944 when 106 refugees were allowed to travel to Sweden (p 441). (11 Jews went to Sweden at 1943)

Same here, you claim "Sweden's explanation was" as if it was the official line? Source, Who said it? to whom? and when?
Summer 1943 Sweden started to extract Jews on a methodical way from both Central Europe and Norway.

Rautkallio (p 239) writes, that at summer 1943 Swedish government refused to accept 14 Jewish child from Finland, because it was afraid that this would led to a Jewish "invasion" from Finland to Sweden. Rautkallio writes about "Swedish government".

Rautkallio also points out, that at the same time Swedish government was talking about non-realistic Adler-Rudel-plan which had an idea to transport 20.000 Jewish child from Western Europe to Palestine. (Also Steven Koblik has been wondering this).

A small mount of clothings was send to POWs at 1943, but after that Sweden didn't send more clothings until the war was over. One promise was even taken back at 1944 "because of political reasons."

Yes, and you can't take that as a fair explanation?

I'm wondering which were those "political reasons". Is hard to believe that western Allies had refused Sweden to send clothings to Russian POWs! (technically possible of course).

So According to Hjalmar Krogius "Handelspolitik i krigstid" Finland got in total a Credit from Sweden of 542.1 MSEK during 1939-45.

This credit was very valuable to Finland, I admit that without any hesitation.

But can You say, what part of the credit was given during Winter War and what during 1940-1943 and what part 1944-45. Winter War's part might have been 50% of all and 1944-45 Finland got a lot of food from Sweden. So "my time period" got just a piece of all.

Germany Paid for the goods.
And Sweden needed to trade and Normal trade where OK according to the Anglo-Swedish wartrade negotioations.

Sweden's Export to Germany after Martin Fritz:

Year, values MIO Skr
1939: 371
1940: 494
1941: 558
1942: 529
1943: 537
1944: 345

Change from pre-war era 1939 to 1941 is +50% which is not a normal change. And far away from neutrality!

Not Your Idea of a Blockade...
You fail to see the difference of normal trade, the official work from British side is Medlicott "teh economic blockade" - it will sort out some of your questions.

Thank You, have to read it.

But ball-bearing were "a big thing", a small amount of clothings were "not a thing". And those were targeted to Russian citizens! Contrast is the reason why I'm wondering. It wont fit.

And I'm not crying that Sweden didn't sell clothings to Finnish army or civilians.

I have tried to present something I believe is rather factual, but I do not deny that Swedish goverments ppolicy where aimed at keeping her own citizens fed and alive rather than morally superior to any other country in Europe.

I try to find out what did happen and why and I compare Winter War era to Continuous War era. I'm not blaming Sweden and I'm not saying that Sweden had a duty to feed Finland.

And I also understand a difference between governments and ordinary citizens - even if we are living in democratic countries.