Churchill's letter to Mannerheim 1941

[Seppo Koivisto]

According to Mannerheim´s memoirs (part II, page 364) Finland received a British ultimatum on 28 November 1941, demanding to cease all operations by December 5th.

Here is a newspaper clip from the day:

Relations With Finland, Hungary And Bulgaria
(Special to "The Miner") ,
LONDON, November 27.- A decision is imminent about Britain's relations with Finland, Bulgaria and Hungary.
The question is far more complicated than appears on the surface, especially as far as Finland is concerned.
One point at issue is whether the enforced allegiance of these powers to Hitler is endorsed by the general public.
A British declaration of war, it is stated, might push them entirely into Germany's arms.
In addition America's sentimental regard for Finland has to be considered by Britain. Further, Finnish adherences to the Anti-Comintern Pact on top of her military activities against Russia makes the situation quite absurd.
It is impossible to see how Britain can much longer cling to the existing unreal relationship.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/48379544

[spgapi]

Churchill´s letter can be read from here:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=184451#p1655648

Thanks, Seppo.

Timeline:
- 12.11.1941 minister Witting told to US Ambassador that Finnish troops will not cut of Muurman line which was left
.

Could you give link for that message?

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

- 12.11.1941 minister Witting told to US Ambassador that Finnish troops will not cut of Muurman line which was left.

Could you give link for that message?

My source is "Rein Marandi: Naapurin silmin" p 48 (available also in Swedish: "Med grannens ögon"). Marandi's source is "Schwatz: America and the Russo-Finnish War", p 71 and 72 (haven't read this one)

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Perhaps we could say that Churchill was Mannerheim's "pen pal" at least since the late 1930's and therefore it is easy to understand why Churchill wrote directly to Mannerheim. Churchill probably just answered to Mannerheim's earlier letter.

Technically possible, but I think the war (even without warfare) is too serious and very official matter.

-------
You should give ultimatums to the government or governments representative but Mannerheim was a soldier. So, did Brittany give an ultimatum to Finland at all - officially?

Looks very much that this was an lower lever action, not a serious trial to get guarantees that Finland would stop warfare soon. This corroborates conclusion that Churchill's letter was only a political support to Stalin. If so, then Finns didn't have any possibilities to avoid war declaration.

[larth]

- 12.11.1941 minister Witting told to US Ambassador that Finnish troops will not cut of Muurman line which was left.

Could you give link for that message?

My source is "Rein Marandi: Naapurin silmin" p 48 (available also in Swedish: "Med grannens ögon"). Marandi's source is "Schwatz: America and the Russo-Finnish War", p 71 and 72 (haven't read this one)

Here is a link to the US diplomatic correspondence on Finland for the 12th of November 1941 and onwards:

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/FRUS/FRUS-idx?type=turn&id=FRUS.FRUS1941v01&entity=FRUS.FRUS1941v01.p0103&q1=murmansk

Murmansk is mentioned on pages 91, 92 for that date.

I found the first mention of leaving Murmansk railway alone on the bottom of page 112 (from December 3rd); this starts on the previous page and is also quite interesting.

Search is possible from http://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/FRUS.FRUS1941v01.


Regarding Churchill and Mannerheim, I have a vague memory of that they met when Mannerheim was travelling in Europe securing support for making the Åland isles Finnish. Note: vague memory, no references on hand.

Lars

[Seppo Koivisto]

- 12.11.1941 minister Witting told to US Ambassador that Finnish troops will not cut of Muurman line which was left.

Could you give link for that message?

Witting told that only verbally and looks that Schoenfeld didn´t report it further.

[Anne G,]

Diplomacy has rules and you can expect all parties to follow those rules.

I think you put too much stress on that. There is always also inofficifial communication. F.ex. during the Cuban missile crisis Robert Kennedy had Russian contacts and his "authority" was that of President's brother and closesr advisor rather than Attorny General who normally had no busines in foreign politics.

[Anne G,]

A letter to Ryti had been serious, but a letter to "an old friend" on lower level in hierarchy told to Finns that they didn't have to take this very seriously. Perhaps there would be a war but no warfare.

On the contrary, it was meant very seriously to warn that after Germany was beaten, also Finland could face serious consequnces and could expect no help from Britain.

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/FRUS/FRUS-idx?type=turn&id=FRUS.FRUS1941v01&entity=FRUS.FRUS1941v01.p0103&q1=murmansk
I found the first mention of leaving Murmansk railway alone on the bottom of page 112
Lars

Thanks larth, that's VERY interesting.

Even if Witting has been called a very pro-German person, he did gave to US Ambassador a promise that Finnish troops will stop warfare soon and let Muurman railroad alive.

So, British war declaration had only a formal connection with Finnish army warfare. Which means that Churchill's letter to Mannerheim was only fooling - or "read between the lines" diplomacy? I still think that last one is true.

Btw, Witting's message was a very risky business: Finnish radio intelligent was able to read Ambassador Schoenfeld's radio messages. It was very possible that Germany with 50 time bigger muscles would be able to do the same and would find out what Finns were planing. (does anybody know if Germany's radio intelligence really was able to catch an open American diplomat messages?)

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Witting told that only verbally and looks that Schoenfeld didn´t report it further.

Did you notice larth's post: titel and footnote on page 111. British got it.

Minister Witting told to Russians (via US Ambassador) what Finnish army is going to do in the very near future!

Must say, more than uncommon; almost cooperation. This announcement gave Russians an opportunity to remove troops from Finnish front and send them to fight against Germans. Were Finns and Russian allies! This is crazy!

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Diplomacy has rules and you can expect all parties to follow those rules.

I think you put too much stress on that. There is always also inofficifial communication.

There is also non-formal activities, I agree. But you need a good reason to diverge diplomatic rules, you have to get something better by doing so.

And when you compare Ryti and Mannerheim, Ryti was formally right and because of close contacts to Brittany much better target of message than Mannerheim.

As told before, British themselves appreciated Ryti ("Sir" Risto - almost) a lot and Ryti (Governor of Finnish Bank 1924 on) knew personally Mr Charles Hambro (1928 on same business) who during the war served British intelligent (Scandinavian operations).

Hambro visited Finland at Autumn 1940 and they met (at least) twice. - So, connections to Ryti were living and confidential - why to choose Mannerheim, a wrong person? What extra that choose would give?

And if I remember right, Churchill's war declaration was very polite and he wished that there wouldn't appear any hostilities.

[T.T.]

Hi, you got topical answers already. Just a quick correction:

Moreover, president Ryti had build excellent relations to Brittany

Brittany is a region in France. You obviously refer to Great Britain.

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

Brittany is a region in France. You obviously refer to Great Britain.

Eeeh... bad English is the most common language in the world.

Thanks!