This is indeed interesting case. Normally we will face the reality of over claims of pilots of all air forces. It's almost certain that average over claim rate with any propagandist reasons was about 1:2 or 1:3 in daytime dog fighting (day fighters). As it has seen with many studies Luftwaffe NJG-units (night fighters) had much more realistic claims with reality.Topspeed wrote:I was trying to find out did Kössi do the world record when he downed 5 Il-2s in matter of minute ?
He claims in his book he shot down 5 outa 6 Il-2 that had been bombing Lappeenranta. There is also a infantry sergeant who saw a finnish Me-109 G shooting one after another 6 outa 6 Il-2s. Standing on a hill lookin as they flew past them ( his platoon ).
It is his unofficial kills and he was never credited the Mannerheim cross as the best reservist pilot as Eino Liuukkanen had wished as he made a proposition for it.
I wonder how come such an outstanding aviator was not credited and are his kills on this day 2.7.1944 verifyiable.
I know for fact soviets had revealed 10 Il-2s gone missing that day and finns had signed of 7 of them.
But in case of Karhila and 2nd of July were likely have this exception - "under claim".
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
Or perhaps some other Finnish pilots have "stolen" his real victories. Here are claims of 24th Fighter Squadron:
July 2 1944 19.30–20.15 Lappeenranta......Ltn Erik Teromaa MT-241................ Pe-2
July 2 1944 19.30–20.45 Suomenvesi.........NCO Tapio Järvi MT-463.................Il-2
July 2 1944 19.30–20.45 Viipuri .............Sgt Arvo Koskelainen MT-456................ Il-2
July 2 1944 19.30–20.45 Valkjärvi...........2nd Ltn Heimo Lampi MT-464.......... Il-2
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
Here are claims of 34th Fighter Squadron:
2 July 1944 6.15–7.20 Säiniö...............Ltn Ilmari Juutilainen MT-457................ Airacobra
2 July 1944 10.55–12.10 Viipurinlahti.......Sgn M. Durchman MT-416................ La-5
2 July 1944 20.00–20.40 Lappeenranta......2nd Ltn Mauno Kirjonen MT-402................ Il-2
2 July 1944 20.00–20.40 Suomenvesi........Ltn T. Mattila MT-425................ Il-2
2 July 1944 20.00–20.40 Suur-Merijoki......NCO U. Lehto MT-435................ Il-2
2 July 1944 20.05–20.30 Nuijamaanjärv.....Ltn H. Salomies MT-467................ Il-2
2 July 1944 20.05–20.40 Kärstilänjärvi......Ltn Paavo Myllylä MT-458................ Il-2
2 July 1944 20.05–20.55 Viipuri..............Ltn Urho Lehtovaara MT-448................ 3 x Pe-2
2 July 1944 20.05–20.55 Nuijamaanjärvi ja Ihantala.....NCO A. Nuorala MT-416................ Il-2 ja La-5
It also made we thinking why in that same day Squadron 34 had 3 times more claims than Squadron 24 which had normally 50-80% more claims.
And here are the claims of Kuhlmey unit for that same day:
02.07.44 Uffz. Josef Quarda 4./JG 54 Airacobra - 81 432: at 4.000 m. 10.44
02.07.44 Uffz. Josef Quarda 4./JG 54 Il-2 - 82 698: at 100 m. 20.32
02.07.44 Ltn. Heinz Wernicke 5./JG 54 Airacobra - 91 175: at 800 m. 06.51
Well as you see here there are total 10 claims of IL-2 shot down, 9 for Finns and 1 for 4./JG 54 (Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey). Personally i don't see this case making any exceptions. Memoirs have always huge problems. One should trust not much on them.
Something to think about?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory