Military transport vehicles - emblems and unit markings?

[Milgeek]

I've looked through a lot of photos of Finnish trucks and other vehicles used during WW2 and one thing struck me - I have only seen ONE military truck with any form of unit markings! This one...


Source: sa-kuva

Aside from a the 6-pointed emblem on the left wing this V3000 also has night-visibility stripes painted on the outside of each mud-guard - something else that I believe is unusual.

Can anyone tell me if unit markings were uncommon and if this is indeed a Finnish Army truck (and not perhaps a German Army truck - I say this because that 6-pointed unit emblem looks vaguely familiar).

Any info on vehicle marking in the Finnish army - particularly with regards to trucks - would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks,


Steve

[Mangrove]

Can anyone tell me if unit markings were uncommon and if this is indeed a Finnish Army truck (and not perhaps a German Army truck - I say this because that 6-pointed unit emblem looks vaguely familiar).

This is a German truck, you can see it from the shape and the content of the license plate.

Any info on vehicle marking in the Finnish army - particularly with regards to trucks - would be very gratefully received.

The Finnish military culture seems to have been quite strict towards any markings, apart from camouflage, on any kind of land vehicle. The Navy and the Air Force were much more freely when it came to insignias.

Finnish Air Force vehicles had often swastika painted on the back of the vehicle. Colonel Björkman's personal staff car had "B" painted on the windshield.

[Milgeek]

Many thank Mangrove...Wow! You could see the number plate? I couldn't make it out! Well done!

I suspected this was a German V3000...I am sure I have seen that 6-pointed symbol somewhere before.

Thanks for helping me out.

Steve

[Mangrove]

Many thank Mangrove...Wow! You could see the number plate? I couldn't make it out! Well done!

Finnish license plates are short and have clearly marked letters "SA" at the beginning. On the other hand, the text on the original photograph (SA 69977 / Kiestinki) says the convoy the truck belongs to is German. Furthermore, the insignia on the truck tells it belongs to the SS-Gebirgs-Division „Nord“.

[Bill Murray]

Hi Guys:

Regarding the origin of the Ford truck in this post, I believe it is actually a Finnish purchased 1940 truck.

The Hävittäjä "warrior" was of the original American design with a split double panel front windscreen which I believe I see here.
The German V3000S as well as earlier German variants used a flat single panel windscreen which was cheaper to produce and replace.

I also note that the vehicle has no headlamp covers and only the night visibility white paint which would also seem to indicate it is not a German origin Ford as they would have had both covers and Notek lighting.

This may also mean that this could be originally a civilian truck and that the photo was taken very early in the conflict but the body tends to make me think it may be a very early delivery of the 1940 Ford trucks to the Finnish army.

I cannot read the registration plate myself (bad eyesight) so cannot comment on that.

Bill

[Juha Tompuri]

The convoy photos can be viewed at SA-photos 69972-69982
Here another photo from there, truck with licence plate SS-99770:

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi Bill,

Regarding the origin of the Ford truck in this post, I believe it is actually a Finnish purchased 1940 truck.

Markku Mäkipirtti at his book "Puolustusvoimien Moottoriajoneuvot 1919-1959" (The Motor Vehicles of Finnish Defence Forces 1919-1959) mentions that Germans confiscated ca. 1000 of the Finnish ordered Ford trucks at Norwegian ports (1940? JT)
Might have be these?

Regards, Juha

[Milgeek]

Many thanks everyone, that clarifies that issue nicely.

I had noticed the split screen but couldn't quite tell on my copy of the photo if it was a reflection or not. It's a fascinating subject...I believe the Germans eventually handed over a quantity of Citroen 45 trucks in lieu of these Ford V3000s that they 'confiscated'.

On the use of markings by the Finnish Army, the information that simply 'SA' number plates were used is very handy. Though I noticed - looking through photo archives - that lots of trucks were missing number plates?

The ones that do have number plates *seem* (and this is a guess on my part) to be trucks that are of the type that were specially ordered by the Finnish Army specifically for use by the army - like the Ford V3000s and other special vehicles. And those without *seem* to be those miscellaneous vehicles that look like they were civilian/commercial vehicles that were pressed into service by the army. Does this seem to be a fair comment - or have I just been looking at vehicles that have lost their number plates do you think?

And finally (sorry), while early in the war trucks of civilian/commercial origins seem to have been used in their original paint scheme - some with company names still on - by the later war miscellaneous types still in use seem to have been re-painted the usual mid/moss-green. Was there a specific point when they army decided to repaint these vehicles?

Again - many thanks - I really appreciate the help I'm being given here.

Steve

[Mangrove]

The ones that do have number plates *seem* (and this is a guess on my part) to be trucks that are of the type that were specially ordered by the Finnish Army specifically for use by the army - like the Ford V3000s and other special vehicles. And those without *seem* to be those miscellaneous vehicles that look like they were civilian/commercial vehicles that were pressed into service by the army.

During the peace, only the property of the Finnish Defence Forces were marked with the "SA" followed by a number. However, according to the 1933 law on expropriation of motor vehicles and the 1941 law on expropriation of motor vehicles, all vehicles taken into service received a SA number.

The number was given in numerical order, where the first vehicle taken received number XXX001, the second XXX002 et.c. The first two or three numbers depended of the location of the military district where the "motor vehicle expropriation board" (fi: Moottoriajoneuvo-ottolautakunta) convened.

It might be that there was no need, no will or no material to manufacture thousands of license plates for the civilian vehicles and the license number was only marked inside the car and into the books.

[Milgeek]

Thanks again Mangrove. That makes sense - I guess they had more important things to worry about than licence plates!

Steve

[John Hilly]

There are many photos taken in June 1941, when these vehicles were just expropriated. Many of them have hastily hand painted plates. IMO purpose was to add the SA-plates as soon as possible. Sometimes there's still the civilian plates on, but these photos have been usually taken between 17.-22. 6. 1941 during the mobilization.

With best, J-P

[Mangrove]

The Civil Guard districts where the vehicle was expropriated as determinated by the SA number in 1941.

SA 10000 - 14999 = Helsinki
SA 20000 - 20999 = Etelä-Uusimaa, Porvoo
SA 21000 - 21999 = Etelä-Uusimaa, Kauniainen

SA 22000 - 22999 = Etelä-Kymeenlaakso
SA 25000 - 25999 = Pohjois-Uusimaa
SA 26000 - 27999 = Pohjois-Kymeenlaakso

SA 30000 - 30999 = Kanta-Häme
SA 31000 - 32999 = Lounais-Häme
SA 36000 - 36999 = Suur-Saimaa, Mikkeli

SA 37000 - 37999 = Suur-Saimaa, Lappeenranta
SA 40000 - 40999 = Pirkka-Häme
SA 41000 - 41999 = Jyväskylä

SA 45000 - 45999 = Saimaa
SA 46000 - 46999 = Savonlinna
SA 50000 - 50999 = Pohjois-Savo

SA 51000 - 51999 = Pohjois-Karjala
SA 55000 - 56999 = Iisalmi
SA 57000 - 57999 = Kainuu, Porokylä

SA 58000 - 59999 = Kainuu, Kajaani
SA 60000 - 62999 = Kokkola
SA 63000 - 63999 = Sisä-Suomi

SA 65000 - 65999 = Raahe
SA 66000 - 67999 = Oulu
SA 70000 - 70999 = Länsi-Pohja

SA 71000 - 71999 = Pohjola, Rovaniemi
SA 72000 - 72999 = Pohjola, Ivalo
SA 75000 - 75999 = Pori

SA 76000 - 76999 = Etelä-Satakunta
SA 77000 - 77999 = Pohjois-Satakunta
SA 80000 - 81999 = Vaasa

SA 82000 - 82999 = Etelä-Pohjanmaa, Länsi
SA 83000 - 83999 = Etelä-Pohjanmaa, Itä
SA 85000 - 85999 = Salo, Salo

SA 86000 - 86929 = Salo, Lohja
SA 87000 - 87999 = Raseborg
SA 90000 - 91999 = Vakka-Suomi

SA 95000 - 95999 = Varsinais-Suomi
SA 96000 - 97999 = Turku
SA 98000 - 98999 = Åland

The disparencies between the beginning and end of some number series are explained due to the fact that some numbers were reserved for captured vehicles, e.g. for this T-20 (SA 18766) photographed in Levina in April 1942. SA #85069:

[John Hilly]

Thanks Mangrove. I saved the list for a further use!

With best, J-P

[Esa Muikku]

The disparencies between the beginning and end of some number series are explained due to the fact that some numbers were reserved for captured vehicles,...

The registration numbers outside the above mentioned blocks were actually reserved for vehicles owned by the Finnish Army, regardless of how the ownership was acquired (by purchase or by fighting). In this sence the expropriated vehicles can be considered as "loaned" since the idea was to return them.

[Mangrove]

An Oldsmobile, SA 12240, carrying the emblem of Ilmatorjuntarykmentti 13 (It.R 13). Photographed in Onttola near Joensuu during October 1944. SA-Kuva 167217: