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The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
Hosted by Juha Tompuri

Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 12 May 2012 21:19

Yep!
VMV 103 at the photo.

The Finnish designation for the four boats were VMV 101, 102, 103 and 105.
Photo source can be found from here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=56590

Over to you Jarkko

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby JTV on 13 May 2012 07:28

Thanks Juha. So these were included to vartiomoottorivene (VMV) patrol boats.

The following question does not measure as much as knowledge, but the ability of thinking outside the box. Question: Year 1944 Finnish Armed Forces was testing Tampella 120-mm mortars for certain type of use, which can be noted being rather unventional for this sort of weapon. What was this use for which 120-mm mortars were tested at that time?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby JTV on 14 May 2012 04:55

1st hint: The 120-mm mortar tested for this use was otherwise structurally normal 120 Krh/40 (120 mm mortar model 1940), but it had notably thicker barrel.

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby JTV on 15 May 2012 18:34

2nd hint: The thicker barrel was needed because of propellant charges being notably larger than normal. The larger propellant charges allowed muzzle velocity to reach 400 m/sec mark (normally 120 Krh/40 mortar ammunition had muzzle velocities of 116 - 290 m/sec)...

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby JTV on 16 May 2012 09:05

3rd hint: The mortar shells used for this purpose would have been equipped with tracer...

I just noticed typo in the original question :( , it should be:
Year 1944 Finnish Armed Forces was testing Tampella 120-mm mortars for certain type of use, which can be noted being rather unconventional for this sort of weapon. What was this use for which 120-mm mortars were tested at that time?

So, not ventional, but unconventional.

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby peeved on 16 May 2012 09:19

AA barrage use with time fuzed ammo?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby JTV on 16 May 2012 19:06

peeved wrote:AA barrage use with time fuzed ammo?


Excellent peeved, that is exactly the right answer. Anti-aircraft use by using mortar shells equipped with tracers and time fuses. The report calls the resulting weapon as 120 it.krh (120-mm anti-aircraft mortar).

In my last visit to the archives I happened to find a report according which Finnish Army was testing 120 Krh/40 mortars equipped with thicker barrels for anti-aircraft use in May - June 1944. Colonel A.E. Saloranta sent the particular report to Colonel Helminen in 2nd of June 1944. According the report the early experiments seem to have been quite successful - with increased propellant charges they reached muzzle velocity of 400 m/sec with normal mortar shells without facing any real issues with ammunition or mortar. Admitted number or shells fired was quite limited and real durability was not yet tested at that time. At 70-degree angle this allowed the mortar shells to reach ceiling of 4,000 meters in distance of about 3,000 meters from the mortars. The report suggest acquiring four such mortars and giving them to suitable Air Force unit for further testing and according report Salovaara had already unofficially ordered the mortars from Tampella for the purpose.

The intention was to first use modified French fuses and actual mortar shell used for the purpose would have been a version especially designed and manufactured for it. The time fuse was to have three settings - 12 seconds, 10 seconds and 28 seconds. With variety of propellant charges there were expected to provide suitable solutions for shooting at heights of 1,000 - 4,000 meters. Tracer should have been activated 10 - 12 seconds before the shell would detonate.

My own opinion is that the performance wasn't exactly spectacular (for example 40-mm Bofors had ceiling at 5,000 meters and maximum range of 9,000 meters) and the actual chances of hitting an aircraft extremely poor (even heavy anti-aircraft batteries with their powerful purpose-built guns, rangefinders and mechanical computers had hard time doing that). What ever happened, the concept never saw large-scale use. The origins for the idea also remains uncertain - it may have originated from Colonel Peura whom Saloranta consulted about the concept, but in Tampellasta Patriaan/From Tampella to Patria by Vesa Toivanen also mentions in page 50 that Tampella staff apparently considering using 120-mm mortars as improvised anti-aircraft weapons with mortar shells equipped with time fuses during Continuation War.

Those wishing to read the original report (it's in Finnish), I made it temporarily available:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/_AA_mortar1.jpg
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/_AA_mortar2.jpg

Over to you peeved.

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby peeved on 16 May 2012 20:18

Thanks Jarkko,

For the background info and links.

New subject.

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 19 May 2012 20:53

A Finnish T-38-KV mock-up AT-training tank?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby peeved on 19 May 2012 20:56

Exactly so,

Photo from http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost ... r_1945.jpg

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 20 May 2012 18:04

Thanks Markus,

Now, here a new one.
To where do the skis and ski poles at the photo belong to?

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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 21 May 2012 06:43

Another burry image:
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 22 May 2012 10:41

Juha Tompuri wrote:To where do the skis and ski poles at the photo belong to?
Here the"ski carrier".
Skis far right, out of the photo.
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 23 May 2012 07:13

Here another photo of the "ski carrier".
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Re: The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Postby Juha Tompuri on 26 May 2012 21:51

...and another one:
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