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Mr. Di Anna has been working together with Mr. Torretta:Seppo Koivisto wrote:Today´s Turun Sanomat published a column by Luigi G. de Anna, professor of Italian language and culture at University of Turku. De Anna suggests that the reason for Manzocchi´s flight to France was a secret mission, not that he was in love with a French girl. A reconnaisance flight on French side or carrying a message from Italian anti-German circles.
http://www.ts.fi/online/mielipiteet/kir ... 19328.html
Juha wrote:A couple of years ago a group of people contacted me and asked info about the fate of D. Manzocchi, Torretta being one of the group.
At that moment (2007 IIRC) Torretta had "cooked up" a story where Manzocchi had died or injured at a car accident at Helsinki Jan-40, being a some sort of a spy etc.
I tried to explain him how the things in real life had gone, but seems that in vain.
Lotvonen wrote:The only thing that still is puzzling: Why is Manzochhi not mentioned by name in the list of casualties of the FAF in the Winter War
Juha Tompuri wrote:Actually it is mentioned.Lotvonen wrote:But why is the Manzocchi incident not mentioned for example in "Ilmavoimat talvisodassa" by Stenman&Keskinen ? It seems he was flying a regular LeLv26 mission ?
Not at the tables at the end of the book, but at text in page 143.
Well... after it had been posted here already earlier.Jagala wrote:I must wonder whether Harri opened the link I gave earlier
AFAIK no-one knows the exact time when Manzocchi landed, the 45min perhaps being the max 45-min enduranceJagala wrote: according to Tapio Huttunen, Manzocchi's last flight started at 1340 hrs and ended approximately 45 minutes later

Juha Tompuri wrote:Well... after it had been posted here already earlier.Jagala wrote:I must wonder whether Harri opened the link I gave earlier
Juha Tompuri wrote:AFAIK no-one knows the exact time when Manzocchi landed, the 45min perhaps being the max 45-min enduranceJagala wrote: according to Tapio Huttunen, Manzocchi's last flight started at 1340 hrs and ended approximately 45 minutes later

That meaning you don't read the earlier posts here?Jagala wrote:Juha Tompuri wrote:Well... after it had been posted here already earlier.Jagala wrote:I must wonder whether Harri opened the link I gave earlier
Touché! (Well, that means I found it "independently"...)
AFAIK during that mission Manzocchi never flew to Lapinjärvi.Jagala wrote:The amount of time between this and the landing is, of course, an approximation, but it must be a fairly close one, because the air combat took place over Iitti and Lapinjärvi, i.e. not far from the lake.

Juha Tompuri wrote: That meaning you don't read the earlier posts here?
Juha Tompuri wrote: AFAIK during that mission Manzocchi never flew to Lapinjärvi.

Now as you seem to have understood the local geography (at the area the events took place) that question perhaps has become irrelevant.Jagala wrote:What strikes me as odd(ish) is that there is no mention of any actions by Iitti Civil Guard, which should indeed have been the first on the scene. Instead we have a rescue party sent from an infantry training company in Kuusankoski.

AFAIK he has never visited Finland.Jagala wrote:This could be when Ulderico Munzi visited to Finland
The eyewitness, Matti Laitinen has been dead for over 40 years.Jagala wrote:In the "new" version of the story, the trigger-happy Civil Guard members do not discover that the airplane is Finnish until after shooting the unfortunate pilot. (Well, maybe they expected an enemy aircraft, proceeded to shoot the pilot, discovered their mistake, concocted up a story and dragged the body back to the wreck - and it is not until 70 years later that the poor boy who was told to lie by the grownups dares to tell the true story...)

Jagala wrote about 'Gli aquiloni non volano più", the book by Ulderico Munzi. Jagala can read the page 41. Manzocchi is on the plane. Finally, arrived some rescuers. With a sleigh. A REINDERS sleigh. The book by Munzi is full of these things. It's a great comic book. I didn't interview Matti Laitinen. I found his name on page 220 of the book by Ahti Saarinen "Parolasta Pyhäniemeen". And I didn't interview another witness: Esko Laiho, mechanic of HLeLv 26. And I didn't meet his brother. But another person interviewed Esko. May be this person can tell what Esko said.
Hanski wrote: "the bullet was found inside his chest in the autopsy". Hanski wrote: "Attention seeking? Senile dementia?". About me, Paolo Torretta.
Senile dementia, of course. Is for that I ask you, Hanski, to show me the autopsy or a copy. You know, I have the senile dementia and I want to see that document (or a copy). Where did you find or see it?

Juha Tompuri wrote:Now as you seem to have understood the local geography (at the area the events took place) that question perhaps has become irrelevant.Jagala wrote:What strikes me as odd(ish) is that there is no mention of any actions by Iitti Civil Guard, which should indeed have been the first on the scene. Instead we have a rescue party sent from an infantry training company in Kuusankoski.
Juha Tompuri wrote:AFAIK he has never visited Finland.Jagala wrote:This could be when Ulderico Munzi visited to Finland
Juha Tompuri wrote:The eyewitness, Matti Laitinen has been dead for over 40 years.Jagala wrote:In the "new" version of the story, the trigger-happy Civil Guard members do not discover that the airplane is Finnish until after shooting the unfortunate pilot. (Well, maybe they expected an enemy aircraft, proceeded to shoot the pilot, discovered their mistake, concocted up a story and dragged the body back to the wreck - and it is not until 70 years later that the poor boy who was told to lie by the grownups dares to tell the true story...)
What Civil Guard?
Any evidence to back up the claim that any Civil guard unit/members were at the wreck?

Juha Tompuri wrote:Paolo Torretta contacted me and wished to reply to some of the post made at this thread
Jagala wrote about 'Gli aquiloni non volano più", the book by Ulderico Munzi. Jagala can read the page 41. Manzocchi is on the plane. Finally, arrived some rescuers. With a sleigh. A REINDERS sleigh. The book by Munzi is full of these things. It's a great comic book. I didn't interview Matti Laitinen. I found his name on page 220 of the book by Ahti Saarinen "Parolasta Pyhäniemeen". And I didn't interview another witness: Esko Laiho, mechanic of HLeLv 26. And I didn't meet his brother. But another person interviewed Esko. May be this person can tell what Esko said.

I got the info that Munzi never have visited Finland from Mr Torretta.Jagala wrote:Juha Tompuri wrote:AFAIK he has never visited Finland.Jagala wrote:This could be when Ulderico Munzi visited to Finland
FWIW in an interview he says that he was in Finland. I have of course no way of knowing whether he really was.
A great deal at Hyvönen book about Manzocchi is not based on facts.Jagala wrote:it could of course be that Matti Laitinen was already a tale-teller in (or before) 1982 and managed to fool Jaakko Hyvönen - and that he then, for some reason. had a different tale to tell.


Juha Tompuri wrote:Paolo Torretta contacted me and wished to reply to some of the post made at this thread:
Hanski wrote: "the bullet was found inside his chest in the autopsy". Hanski wrote: "Attention seeking? Senile dementia?". About me, Paolo Torretta.
Senile dementia, of course. Is for that I ask you, Hanski, to show me the autopsy or a copy. You know, I have the senile dementia and I want to see that document (or a copy). Where did you find or see it?
/Juha




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