Soviet Cannibalism during Winter and Continuation war

[Bair]

I saw those pictures being traded on huuto.net. The signs behind them speak about cannibalism, but there is no more evidence about them. There are fragmentated parts of bodies on them. In too many cases I saw signs on the back sides of the photos being completely wrong.

As for destruction of the 1st partisan brigade, I would like to see more evidence of cannibalism in that unit except for a Finnish article from 1982, when the Cold War was still going on and demonization of the USSR was common.

There is vast archive evidence of cannibalism in Leningrad during the Siege. It was recorded in NKVD archives, as NKVD haad to hunt down those cannibals. It is published in an excellent but horrifying book "In the grip of hunger: Siege of Leningrad in documents of NKVD and GErman intelligence". The book was published in St Petersburg a couple of years ago, so far, only in Russian.

with best regards,

Bair

[osip]

That is true.I dont have an argument

[Esa K]

Bair wrote:

As for destruction of the 1st partisan brigade, I would like to see more evidence of cannibalism in that unit except for a Finnish article from 1982

The most recent text I have found, and read, about the destruction of the 1.Partisan brigade is the chapter about it in: Appel, Erik: Med döden i hälarna : högkvarterets fjärrpatruller 1939-1945. Esbo : Schildt 2005. In that text theres no mention about cannibalism in the unit.
And regarding the 1st Partisan Brigade, I looks like there are as many myths, stories, versions etc etc as there where participants from both sides in that operation. The question remanis from where did the mention about cannibalism in the 1982 article came from, is there documents wich can confirm it, or is it a part of the myths that is surrounding the 1. Partisan Brigade?


Regards

Esa K

[Tero T]

Good Day!
In the upcoming release of some photos showing the horrors of war during the Winter and continuation war was one pic that is said to have come from
Leipäsuo March 1943. The picture shows a mess kit lid with some rib bones. Does anyone know more about this .? I hate to bring up this nasty subject matter . Were these partisans that had been encircled or somehow stranded. ? THX Tero T

[Mangrove]

The picture shows a mess kit lid with some rib bones. Does anyone know more about this .?Tero T

Hello Tero!

Don't know about that, but this is from the Helsingin Sanomat paper version.

Yhden kuvan takana kerrotaan tapahtumista Krivin lounaispuolella tammikuussa 1942: "Käydyissä taisteluissa on todettu venäläisten sotilaitten leikaneen lihaa kaatuneitten toveriensa ruumiista ja kuljettaneen lihaa mukanaan repussa pakomatkalle, jolla suomalaiset 13.1.42 tuhosivat ihmissyöjät. Lihaa löytyi kolmen kaatuneen sotilaan repusta.

Ps. It's Leipäsuo (Leipäsuolla being "at the Leipäsuo").

Martti

[Tero T]

The power of hunger can make men act in unspeakable ways. Thank you Martti I corrected my atrocious spelling . Its not too paha now.
THX Tero T

[osip]

Greetings

Certainly . Information war is road to a victory

[Juha Tompuri]

Yhden kuvan takana kerrotaan tapahtumista Krivin lounaispuolella tammikuussa 1942: "Käydyissä taisteluissa on todettu venäläisten sotilaitten leikaneen lihaa kaatuneitten toveriensa ruumiista ja kuljettaneen lihaa mukanaan repussa pakomatkalle, jolla suomalaiset 13.1.42 tuhosivat ihmissyöjät. Lihaa löytyi kolmen kaatuneen sotilaan repusta.

My humble, far from optimum, translation:

Behind one photo there's text about the incidents at South-West of Kriv on January 1942: "During the battles, Soviet soldiers have been found out to have been cut meat from the corpses of their fallen comrades, and to have carried meat at their rucksack on their attempt to escape. During that attempt Finns eliminated the cannibals.
Meat was found from the rucksacks of three fallen soldiers

The paper version also mentions that there are several such photos,
There is also a mention of Finnish veterans of war testimonies of how they have found their (lost, JT) superior, partly eaten by the enemy.

Regards, Juha

[Esa K]

Think theres some proof now that this is about more than just rumours.
And, Martti K, Juha T, wich day was the refeered Helsingin Sanomat text published?

Best regards

Esa K

[Bair]

It was this last Sunday, the name of the article "Too horrible picture of War"

Generally, I did not find those pictures too horrible - after 3 years of buying stuff from Huuto.net and Ebay.de you cannot be shocked by pictures of dead people, naked dead people, skulls, graves, and other things.

It looks like during the WWII taking pictures of dead enemies was considered a normal "tourist" thing, at least in German and Finnish Armies where people had a lot of personal cameras and taking personal pictures at the front was not forbidden. It looks like taking picture of the dead, knocked out tanks, prisoners, destroyed places was just something to add to the photoalbum of the war - a touristic approach.

In the Red Army the sitiation was different, as taking pictures with personal camera was strictly forbidden and there were in general much less cameras available. But nevertheless, I saw several personal pictures that the veterans howed to me.

No blaming Finnish vets, just a cultural difference. To us Russians such pictures by Finns and Germans look very strange, almost sadistic.

with best regards,

Bair

[Tero T]

Good Day!

I have many photo's from Finnish war veteran collections. None of them are stolen . I do not see any prolific evidence of photos taken of dead bodies in Finnish photo albums. Maybe one or two per photo album. Usually from a distance. To suggest Russians didn't take photos because they were not allowed cameras is understandable. But your comment that taking pictures of dead was sadistic in Russian eyes is a bit odd to me. Perpetrating the act seems more sadistic. Tero T

[osip]

There is vast archive evidence of cannibalism in Leningrad during the Siege. It was recorded in NKVD archives, as NKVD haad to hunt down those cannibals. It is published in an excellent but horrifying book "In the grip of hunger: Siege of Leningrad in documents of NKVD and GErman intelligence". The book was published in St Petersburg a couple of years ago, so far, only in Russian.


It is not necessary to forget that people starved some years. In known cases NKVD killed cannibals. Insufficiency of albuminous food leads to change of mentality. However for regular army it is impossible. Tero you have many photo's from Finnish war veteran collections. Please show these photos.

with best regards.

[Tero T]

The canabalism aspect is not my interest. We have seen this throughout history even here in Canada when some bush pilots crashed in the far north 30 years ago. It is not specific to any culture. My interest was to know more of the unit that succumbed to this and what was the scenario that drove them to this fate.
I will show more pics in the near future that might be of interest. Thanks for asking. Regards Tero T

[Janne]

Actually private photography wasn't allowed without a permit obtained at regimental or higher level, but apparently inofficially it wasn't strictly forbidden. OTOH it wasn't yet the age of cheap snapshot cameras, they were quite expensive, complicated and sensitive pieces of equipment in those days. If you were in an infantry company and you did own a camera, you probably didn't wish to carry an easily broken thing in your rucksack - and maybe you had other things in your mind as well.

In other words, cameras were rare, private photographers at the front were rarer and usually found at battalion HQ or regiment level, in artillery etc and when you owned a camera, you were a quite serious hobbyist, almost a semi-pro and you possibly had some artistic or documentary ambitions as well.

FWIW I have inherited a few photographs. They were developed in multiple copies and sold at cost by the photographerm, the motives are for instance: "Our platoon" (in a dugout with a disassembled machinegun on the table), "The bridge at Sohjanankoski", "A really strong guy in our company", "Sergeant NN and corporal N" (N is a pet dog), "Our company CO", "Me and other guys going on leave". Obviously, sale of gory pictures would've been frowned upon, had there been a demand for them.

[JariL]

Hi Bair,

I don't think that Finnish soldiers had too many opportunities to take private photos during the war. Getting a camera was not necessarily a big problem but getting your hands on a roll of film certainly was. For example the army photographers had to give a written report about each frame they took even if the frame was spoiled.

Finnish liaison officers that operated with German units, so I have been told, had better access to film than most others. This was most likely in order to gather information (spy) the commarades in arms. Films taken privately by these men may have been partly destroyed by their relatives because long after the war these men were easily labeled as "nazis" due to their war time position.

I don't know if Finnish and German photographers have been more or less prone to photograph enemy dead than others but for example in Cruel War (written by Nial Fergusson) the author tells that during WWI soldiers on both sides took photos of enemy dead as souvenier. Some U.S. soldiers went further than that and sent home skulls and bones of their dead enemies from the Pacific theatre during WWII. It could also be that this is not so much a cultural thing but reflects the lattitude that the respective societies gave to their individual members even during the war. In general I think it is interesting that German sodiers carried with them approximately 2 million private cameras and that they could take photos even about mass excecutions etc. obviously without too many restrictions.

Regards,

Jari