None in the shoestring-bound collection of separate pages I have.Juha Tompuri wrote:Thanks, very interesting drawings.peeved wrote:See pictures below from "Kennblätter fremden Geräts" of Panzerabwehrmine 401 (e) - engl Mk I - Pz Mi 401 (e) (mine anti-tank Mark I) possibly the same as A.T Mine G.S. Mk I and Panzerabwehrmine 408 (e) - engl L P Mk II (egypt) - Pz Mi 408 (e) possibly the same as A.T Mine E.P. Mk II.
No other similar looking mine types at the book?
The Museum's m/40 is disc-shaped and based on the boat mine beside it the diameter is in the ballpark. Even accounting for the photo angle I doubt if the photographed example is 14 cm high though; maybe it would be 14 cm high and cylindrical with e.g. a missing pressure plate attached.PANSSARIMIINA m/40 (antitank-mine m/40): Only one of Finnish sources claims that this mine even existed. None of the Finnish military manuals even mention it. So, either it didn't exist or it may have been prototype, which never saw mass-production. Supposedly it had disc-shaped circular sheet metal body, its diameter was 16 cm and height 14 cm. This supposed mine weight 4.2-kg, which included 3.2-kg explosive charge. The claimed fuse was typical pressure activated type with activation pressure of 150-kg.
Not neccessarypeeved wrote:...he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
The advantage of thin metal case.peeved wrote:On page 234 of "Jatkosodan historia, Vol. 1" (WSOY 1988) there is a description of mines and explosive traps in Finnish use in the beginning of the Continuation War. Anti-tank mine m/40 is characterized a high, cylindrical iron mine weighing 4,2 kg of which 3,2 kg HE !!! Rather extraordinary total weight/HE content ratio compared to eg. the wooden m/S-40 (7,5 kg/3,5 kg HE) and the imported Tellermine 35: m/41 (10 kg/5 kg HE).
Here G.S. Mk II pressure plates:peeved wrote:Sounds really nothing like the mine labelled m/40 in the Engineer Museum unless the mine is lacking some (very light) parts.
http://www.battlefront.com/community/sh ... nextnewestIIRC the diameter could well the one mentioned, but as you mentioned, the height perhaps not.peeved wrote:OTOH at http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/landmines3.htm it is said of theThe Museum's m/40 is disc-shaped and based on the boat mine beside it the diameter is in the ballpark. Even accounting for the photo angle I doubt if the photographed example is 14 cm high though; maybe it would be 14 cm high and cylindrical with e.g. a missing pressure plate attached.PANSSARIMIINA m/40 (antitank-mine m/40): Only one of Finnish sources claims that this mine even existed. None of the Finnish military manuals even mention it. So, either it didn't exist or it may have been prototype, which never saw mass-production. Supposedly it had disc-shaped circular sheet metal body, its diameter was 16 cm and height 14 cm. This supposed mine weight 4.2-kg, which included 3.2-kg explosive charge. The claimed fuse was typical pressure activated type with activation pressure of 150-kg.
http://maic.jmu.edu/journal/supplementa ... ions.asp#GThe Mine G.S. Mk III has three principal components: the loaded mine body, the mine cover, and the fuze. The mine cover fits loosely over the top of the body when the mine is laid, and is raised slightly at the center to form a seating for the top of the fuze. For transit purposes the cover fits over the bottom of the mine and is secured with adhesive tape. The loaded mine body is cylindrical in shape and is closed at the top with a lid soldered in place. After filling, the bottom of the mine body is closed with a base plate, which is pressed in and coated with cement for moisture-proofing. A central well in the mine body is provided for the insertion of the fuze. Immediately below the fuze well is located a C.E. booster pellet surrounding the Detonator No. 27, and below that is placed a solid TNT pellet. This mine is used as a defense against armored cars and other vehicles. The mine will break the tracks of light and medium tanks, and disable other vehicles.
...including appearance, shape, lack of a side-mounted fuse....Of the known types, the (complete)G.S. MkIII would fit to the "pic" with the approx size, soldering used and activation pressure required, but not with the weight and several other things.
Yes, exept the we don't know the exact role of the side cavity.phylo_roadking wrote:...including appearance, shape, lack of a side-mounted fuse....
IMO 5000 British AT mines seems the likely minimum; since they were reported in the rather well-researched "Talvisodan Historia" Vol 4 delivered in January 1940. How many if any of the 10 000 additional AT mines ordered from the UK during the Winter War were actually delivered is indeed debatable. If for example the real total was ca. 6000 a misplaced comma would explain the rather doubtful number of 60,000 Brit AT mines quoted in "Marskin Panssarintuhoojat" by E. Käkelä.JTV wrote:My impression is that the number of British antitank-mines could not have been anywhere near as large as 15,000 mentioned before. Finnish Army antitank-mine manuals published during Continuation War go to considerable detail with antitank-mines like M/36, only 5,000 of which was ever manufactured and large part of these had already been used by the time the manuals were published (1941 & 1944). But still M/40 is not even mentioned in these manuals - hence IMHO the number of these mines in Finnish use could have been very large.
Nevakivi mentions that equipment that had not been delivered from Great Britain by end of Winter War didn't leave after that. Even three ships in British harbours already loaded with war-materials about to be shipped to Finland were disbarked.
As I earlier wrote, the origin and the fate of the "10 000 AT-mines ordered" is quite unclear.peeved wrote:IMO 5000 British AT mines seems the likely minimum; since they were reported in the rather well-researched "Talvisodan Historia" Vol 4 delivered in January 1940. How many if any of the 10 000 additional AT mines ordered from the UK during the Winter War were actually delivered is indeed debatable.
" in addition to these (the mines received and locally manufactured, JT) also from abroad, among others from Britain, 10 000 AT-mines, that were not received during the war, were ordered"... ulkomailta, muun muassa Englannista, tilattiin näiden lisäksi 10 000 telamiinaa, joita ei sodan aikana ehditty saada..."
Dang; I must've misread that 10 000 AT-mines ordered from Britain. My three Rs tend to deteriorate through the evening hours.Juha Tompuri wrote:" in addition to these (the mines received and locally manufactured, JT) also from abroad, among others from Britain, 10 000 AT-mines, that were not received during the war, were ordered"
At the appendix Pioneeriaselajin historia 1918 - 1968 (The history of Engineer arm 1918 - 1968) by Eero-Eetu Saarinen is listed the literature of Finnish engineer arm.JTV wrote: Finnish Army antitank-mine manuals published during Continuation War go to considerable detail with antitank-mines like M/36, only 5,000 of which was ever manufactured and large part of these had already been used by the time the manuals were published (1941 & 1944). But still M/40 is not even mentioned in these manuals
The simplest explanation(IMHO) whould be that the first batch where used up during the winter war and no more arrived in Finland.Juha Tompuri wrote: Also, it would be strange if Finland would have received thousands of the British AT-mines, AFAIK not used during the Winter War, they would have remained so little known in Finland.
Regards, Juha
At the E-E Saarinen book there is a list of mines used during Winter War, and the M/40 is not there.John T wrote:The simplest explanation(IMHO) whould be that the first batch where used up during the winter war and no more arrived in Finland.
I think somewhere should then have been left a mark/mention of such transaction.John T wrote:A second hypothesis could be that Finland sold them back to UK during summer 1940, The britts would have been desperate enough to buy and the Finns wanted to ship out goods with the highest price per volume through Liinahammari.
Is anywhere any details of those mines?John T wrote:The same way the Swedes where offered to buy back those Motala mines.
http://forum.boinaslava.net/showthread.php?t=7787The Estonian army recognized the significance of the anti-tank defence already in its early days. As early as in 1929-1933 Lieutenant Theodor-Nikolai Tomson developed a very modern anti-tank mine TM-34 and 12000 mines were manufactured. TM-34 was a waterproof polyfunctional mine with adjustable ignition pressure. The use of a special arming key rendered laying and recovering safe. Later, an upgraded model TM-37 was made.
