'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

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Michael Kenny
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Re: Atrocities of 12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#16

Post by Michael Kenny » 23 Oct 2014, 04:30

Le Haut Bosq is 3km SE of Fontenay Le Pesnil
polo87623_10_2014 03_16_12_stitch mm.jpg

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Re: Atrocities of 12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#17

Post by seaburn » 23 Oct 2014, 07:45

Thank you Dennis and 'MK' for your positive contributions to this search.

Dennis: I'll be able to give more details on the coat worn by the officer once the list is compiled but as mentioned it seems to be a long grey coat - the material it was made from wasn't actually fully identified nor could what was worn underneath be ascertained. There was an interesting description of the shoulder boards however...so please have a look when I post the full list as you are very obviously au fait with these details and are no doubt keen to help nail this mystery too.

'MK' thank you for posting the map - I had written that I couldn't find 'le haut de bosq' on the modern map- in the mean time I did get a map from that time period and I pinned it exactly where you have identified so Its great that you have confirmed it also. Can I ask if you or anyone else can confirm that Siebken had his HQ in le Mesnil Patry on the 8th of June ? This has been assumed post interviews by the investigators without showing proof in the file, at the moment I'm going along with that but I've asked that question to people who have PM'd me about this case without success as yet, its something that I'd still like to get confirmed.


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Re: Atrocities of 12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#18

Post by seaburn » 27 Oct 2014, 22:40

Siebkens HQ 8.8.44 aerial view.jpg
Siebken's HQ 8.8.44 aerial view
Siebkens HQ 8.8.44.jpg
Siebken's HQ 8.8.44

The location of Siebken's HQ is listed as per above in the following Website:
http://carentanlibertygroup.forumgratui ... snil-patry

This website doesn't have much cited information but the location listed appears to agree with the testimonies of the survivors who were brought though an intersection in the village on which a soldier was directing traffic moving to and from the front. The description of the building's also matches although they subsequently sustained heavy bomb damage during the weeks of fighting. The size of this farm would have made it an ideal Btln HQ, it was on the outskirts of the village and surprisingly that's still the case today.

I will post the route the POWS took to the field presently, it was on this journey that they encountered the 'Angry Officer'. I am trying to locate the testimonies of the last two survivors, Desjarles and McDougall before I post all the descriptions given. At the moment I just have a short handwritten synopsis of their accounts. There is one more file that I can access, hopefully that one will have these testimonies.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#19

Post by seaburn » 02 Nov 2014, 01:25

I have independent verification that the HQ pictured above was indeed the location of Bernard Siebken's II Btln HQ on June 8th. This information was noted in WO309/1172-P179 as been obtained under interrogation from Oberleutnant August Henne, 7Kp, II Btln, 26th Reg.

The location of the field in which the POWs were executed however, is not correct in the above website. The correct location will be posted presently.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#20

Post by rossmcpharter » 02 Nov 2014, 12:37

That's one hell of a link, makes me think one of the posters may be linked to Heimdall, they've certainly uncovered some information. I've bookmarked it.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#21

Post by seaburn » 02 Nov 2014, 19:14

(The following details of what happened to Canadian POWs captured on June 8th 1944 south of Le Mesnil Patry, Normandy, France, are taken from files WO309/217, WO309/1172 and the Interrogation of Georg Isecke, 12th Panzer Regiment).

The witness testimonies of three of the survivors (Mc Lean, Clarke, and Ferris) of this shooting was later labelled as ‘Fontenay-Le-Pesnel’. There were 5 survivors in all but two of the testimonies (Desjarles and McDougall) are not covered in the above referenced files. In Margolian’s book ‘Conduct Unbecoming’ (see post 1) their testimonies are referenced as being located at NARA. There was however, a hand written comparison sheet in file WO309/1172 which listed the main points of all five testimonies. From this sheet, it seems that the Officer who gave the order for the men to be shot was not described by these two latter witnesses.

The three testimonies that I can work off do not always tally in their detail, what has to be kept in mind is that these statements were not made until 1 year after the events. Couple this with the trauma these men witnessed, injuries they received while trying to escape and being recaptured soon after the event could have led to some details being forgotten or fudged. However, the testimonies of Clarke and McLean in particular were considered honest and convincing. Ferris’s testimony on the other hand was not very insightful, this may be because he was at the back of the POW column and carrying a stretcher of one of his injured comrades. But the investigation team had their doubts that he would have been able to withstand a cross examination at a trial. This was not because they felt his testimony was dishonest, it was more that his mental capabilities appeared to have been diminished, it is not clear if this was a result of the trauma he had gone through or that this was his normal character.

In light of the discrepancies between their recollections, I will post their accounts with their initials in front, you as the reader can decide which details are more reliable in relation to the important evidence. This will be primarily in relation to the identity of the Officer who appears to have issued the order for the execution of the POWs. These survivors were all interviewed in June 1945, they were subsequently brought back to the location of the shooting in July 45. They did have a chance to collaborate at this stage as they made this trip together, but it appears that their initial statements did not differ to their second interview to any great extent, otherwise these second testimonies would have to be viewed with caution due to this contamination.

Ferris was the exception to this as his initial statement was much shorter than the others and had lacked substantial detail. He claimed that his recollections were renewed when he saw the terrain again, which is plausible, yet he still did not have anything further to add of much relevance.

The details of name. rank, unit and age of the three witnesses are as follows:

Mc Lean: H41725. Cpl, Royal Winnipeg Rifles, C Company 13th Platoon – 34 years old.
Clarke: E21952. Gunner, 3A Tank Regt - 24 years old
Ferris: H315 Rifleman RWR – C Comp 15th Platoon - 21 years old


All agree that on the afternoon of June 8th 1944 members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and an Anti Tank Company were captured by German forces on the outskirts of Putot-en-Bassin . They were all captured between 13.00 and 15.00 hours.

Who captured you?

ML:
Paratroopers, they had paratrooper’s clothes, coveralls, a combination affair (jacket and trousers) camouflaged, no steel helmets, soft cap and all carried schmeizers. (Was asked about their boots, but did not remember them). Thought they had a skull on their caps but could not be sure, by second interrogation he was sure. Was told by Lt Ferguson that they were paratroopers.

F:
Captured by SS, (he thought this because one had a black jacket on). He saw SS marks on the collars of their tunics. The ones that captured him wore complete camo uniforms. Most of them were 18 or 19.

C:
SS Paratroops. A man with a parachute still attached who had broken his leg was collected in the field on the way to Le Mesnil Patry (the insinuation was that he was dressed the same as the guards). They had SS on their collars and wore all camo, loose pants, loose jackets, green camo, ammo around their shoulders, all with schmeizers and spandaus, soft peak caps and helmets. 5 guards and no NCO’s


They were initially brought to a house in the village which they presumed to be a Company HQ. This house was subsequently identified by a German prisoner as the HQ of the 5th Kp II Btln, 26th Reg. under the command of Osbf Gotthardt, (This officer was reported as KIA the following day). There the prisoners rested with no interrogation carried out until they were gathered up by a new escort party and marched across the fields to the village of Le Mesnil Patry to the farmhouse of George Moulin which was subsequently identified as B. Siebken’s Btln II, 26 Reg. HQ.

What do you remember about this second HQ?

ML:

Marched to another Barn in a village. Lots of Officers around this one at least 8 or 9. Marched off later. A Sargent was in charge of the party. No idea what village this HQ was in. (Thought it looked more like a Battalion HQ due to the amount of Officers who were there). No interrogation at this HQ. Guards changed at this location, some of the second set were wearing camo smocks. Some of them had the camo cape with buttons around the crotch. Those that did not have jackets wore a greenish coloured uniform. Tunics and pants with gaiters. Not wearing high boots. There were 6 or 7 of them. Joined by 10 more POWs, some from his unit, others from Artillery. Stayed there between 30-60 minutes, can’t be sure as he slept. Officers had dress uniforms on here. None dressed in battle uniforms. Looked like they were dressed to go to town. They were talking outside the building. They had badges on their lapels but he did not know what they were. Their caps had hard black peaks. No arm bands.

Q. What marks were on their lapels? A.‘I could not tell you but I know they had the different kind they wear, what rank I do not know’.

Could not tell if they had light coloured braid on their shoulders. Could see lots of vehicles around, similar to touring cars. Thinks he left there at about 18.00hrs.

F:

Brick house, two story, gravel path, veranda, long barn, guards at the HQ, seemed like a Btln HQ. Kept there between 1 and 2 hours, no wounded attended to by Germans, no interrogations. Saw no Officers at the HQ

C:

It looked like a panzer HQ. It looked like a brigade HQ lots of Officers with braids on uniforms. Some had different shoulder boards and one had a lanyard. Collar tabs showed to witness, identified this man’s rank as a Hsf. 6 or 7 officers, dispatch riders, all in dress uniform. One Officer had 3 stars on the tip of his collar and the one who was going to the gate and issuing orders had shoulder straps and straps around the waist and a silver lanyard and medals over his pocket. Didn’t notice an RK but he had no cap on. Colour of uniform was a greenish grey, not blue or grey. He was very ‘decorated up’. Other officers in peaked caps.

How many men in the party of prisoners?

M.L: About 30 or possibly more.

F: 35-40

C: 32 in all, counted by him. 14 or 15 at first then 32 in all until the field.


The POWs were ordered out of this HQ and escorted again by the same guards. The turned left out of the driveway, and then turned right at the end of the road. They were then on a ‘track’. It was on this track that they encountered an Officer whose apparent orders ended with the shooting of the party further down the trail.
powroute.jpg
B=where the party crossed the fields to Le Mesnil Patry
(Details of the encounter with this Officer. the subsequent shooting and map of the terrain from June 44 in the next post)

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#22

Post by rossmcpharter » 02 Nov 2014, 22:00

They would think they were paratroopers, due to the camouflaged and baggy clothing, I presume. The British and Canadian para's also wore the camouflage Denison smock.

My friends father who served in Normandy, once said to me, that the main difference between the troops clothing, was that the Germans wore much looser, baggier, clothing than the Allies. So if there were no obvious other differences, that's what he worked on, really baggy meant German.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#23

Post by PATRICK CHARRON » 03 Nov 2014, 19:30

Hello,
Following information taken from a former mayor of Mesnil Patry village, he confirms that HQ Siebken was at the Moulin Farm as shown on the map above.

Personally, I think the angry officer who ordered the executions would be Mohnke.

For members who have missed this very interesting topic to see in parallel.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7&start=30

Seaburn Bravo for the quality of your posts.

Regards
Patrick

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#24

Post by seaburn » 04 Nov 2014, 18:53

Below is an aerial photo (gratefully received from a forum member) taken on June 24th 1944 which shows our area of interest. It’s obvious when comparing this photo to the terrain today that there have been many significant changes to the layout. In the interviews with the surviving POW’s they were asked to consult a map of the Caen area and mark the locations of the two HQ’s and the field where the shooting happened. These grid references mean that I can be confident that these important locations are accurate.
Aerialroute44.jpg
(Siebken’s HQ is at the top right hand side of the photo is marked with a purple dot. The red arrows show the ‘track’ that the POWs took from Siebken’s HQ to the field of execution. The field where the POWs were executed is just out of shot to the bottom left of this photo. The main road from Fontenay-le-Pesnel to Caen runs along the bottom from west to east and is marked in green).


The witnesses were confused about the distance they had travelled and how long it took to get from the Btln HQ to the field. Therefore we cannot be sure exactly where they met the Officer. However there was a description of ‘scattered woods’ to their left as they made their way down the track. There was also a description from one of the witnesses who remembered a bend in the road near the location. I have circled the only area that seems to match this description, but this is only an educated guess and cannot be taken as conclusive.

To recap: The POWs were captured near Putot-e Bassin on the 8th of June, they were then brought to a Kp HQ and from there were marched across the fields to a bigger HQ. This location has been confirmed as the HQ of the II Btln of the 26th Regiment. The Btln Commander was Bernhard Siebken. The POWs stayed in a barn there for some time until ordered to move out again. There were three stretcher cases as well as some walking wounded in the party. The group total was approx. 35-40 men with approx. 10-15 SS guards. They were walked down a narrow track, the men carrying the stretchers found it hard to keep up and the guards were hurrying them along. Presently they came upon an Officer on the track who was then consulted by one of the guards. This is what the surviving witnesses had to say about this fateful meeting with this Officer. (You will note discrepancies between the accounts and as before, I have indicated answers that were given in the second interviews as opposed to the first.)

Mc Lean:

The Sergeant went up to an Officer who was giving orders on the road and asked where he should take the prisoners. ‘The German Officer drew back his hand and let a yell out of him and appeared to be going to hit the German Sergeant’.
Mc Lean could not understand what was said.

They were then marched ¼ of a mile away into the field where the executions happened.

The location of meeting the Officer was immediately behind the German Artillery lines, this Officer was possibly checking and inspecting these lines.

Seemed to be a man of authority.

He was in a car when the party arrived but stepped out of it then.

It was an open vehicle and had no top on it, it was similar to ‘a touring car’.

It was a camouflaged vehicle. Light and dark camouflaged paint.

The braid on his shoulder lapels signified him as an Officer.

The colour of the braid was cream.

It was not flat braid, it was rough/curled.

There was a ‘pip’ which was gold in colour on the shoulder strap too.

He was wearing a cap.

He was wearing a grey top coat, like an Officers rain coat.

He had a skull on his cap.

He was about 5ft 8. (176.7cm).

He was about 40 years old or older.

No moustache, No glasses or monocle, no scars.

He gave an order that they should be shot, this was ascertained by his actions not his words as Mc Lean did not understand German.

When the Sergeant had asked where to take the POWs the Officer had raised his hand as if he was going to strike the sergeant – he then pointed in the direction they were led after.

He was issuing orders around the guns.

He had not seen this Officer before this time.

He could not be sure that the Officer had ordered the killing, but the guard seemed more confidant after that and took them to the field.

(Cross examination just after the interview)

He was fairly well built.

The coat was long and came past his knees.

No belt or cross straps over his coat.

He had high boots.

Hard cap. He did not recognise any badge on the cap. There was something on the cap above the peak but he did not know what it was. There was no braid about the peak.

He had a driver with him. There was no other Officer with him, just the driver.

Q: Was is possible the Officer just told the guard to take you to the rear?
A: ‘Well I don’t know, he seemed very angry. He seemed pretty mad because the Sergeant did not know where to take us’
The vehicle that arrived with the firing party could have been the same car that the Officer was in but McLean couldn’t be sure.

(Re-Interview in July)

He wore a German Officers coat. It looked like a rain coat. A long coat, it was below his knees and on that coat was twisted rope braid – a pip or number of brass was on that.

He did not notice any other person in the vehicle besides the Officer and the driver.

The vehicle was already halted when they came upon it.

He wore a dress, peaked cap.

He could not say what material or colour the crown of the cap was made of.

There was a badge on the cap, but he could not recall what it was, when told that he’d said it had a skull on it in the first interview, he could not remember saying that.

He was right beside this Officer, less than 10 yards.

No other Officer with this Officer.

High polished boots.

The party were not stopped by anyone else after this, although there were German troops at the side of the road.

Mc Lean admitted he didn’t speak German so therefore could not know for sure what was being said, but he understood the actions and gesticulations.

Says that one of the POWs had asked where they were being taken and he was told that they would have to find out, after this Sergeant spoke to the ‘Angry Officer (‘AO’)’ he seems more relaxed that he knew now where to go. The ‘AO’ had pointed down the track that they subsequently followed.

Q: ‘isn’t it ridiculous to assume this Officer by his actions had ordered you be shot’ A: That is what it appeared to me, that we were going to be shot as the Officer had no use for us.’

Did not feel at any time until after meeting ‘AO’ that they were in danger of being shot.

He didn’t talk to anyone who understood German or who commented that they thought they were going to be shot. He himself though had said this to others.


Ferris:

Officer was in a black civilian type closed car.

He shouted out the window orders to the guards.

Two people in the car, the driver and the Officer. Officer sitting in the back of the car.

Men had been stopped when the car passed by about 10-15 minutes later.

He had thought before this time that they were going to be shot, after he saw the Officer in the car, he was certain.

He assumed he was an Officer because all the guards came to attention in his presence.

He was wearing a peaked cap.

He did not notice what was on the cap or any rank insignia.

He could not see the colour of the uniform as the Officer was in the car.

There was no motorcycles with the car.

There were no other cars with it.

Clarke:

He was in a half track and was very angry, he swore at the guards.

One of the party told the others that the Officer had told the guards that they ‘had to get rid of them’.

He was standing at the front of the half-track.

The POWs had been walking down the track and had come upon the half-track coming towards them.

He spoke to the guards for about two minutes in ‘high anger’.

He did not see the Officer make angry gestures to the guards.

Clarke was at the back of the column carrying a stretcher.

This Officer seemed to be north of the German position, but Clark could not be certain of this.

Clark could not be certain if there were artillery positions close by, but there were mortar positions just outside the Kp HQ. Which Clark presumed was a half mile away from where they were (it was actually approx. over 2 miles/3 Km away from this area).

He did not feel he got a good look at this Officer.

German guards and driver saluted the Officer.

Two German soldiers in the back of the car, officer was in the front but not driving.

Other vehicles were going and coming in the field beside the track at the time they were stopped.

These vehicles were half-tracks.

They travelled on about ¼ mile to the field.

Before they met the Officer, they had been told that they were being brought to a hospital. After they left the Officer, Lt Barker (who spoke some German) asked the guards if they were going to the hospital. The guards never answered but replied ‘Rouse’ (sic).

Some of the prisoners did not seem to feel that they were now in danger.

(Cross examination)

Officer was in a half track but it could have been a Volks wagon which was very well camouflaged with bushes.

In the car was a feldwebel, 2 soldiers in the back, the driver and the Officer.

The Officer was in blue uniform with straps on shoulders, no coat noticed.

He did not get out of vehicle.

He did not notice collar markings.

He had one big badge on his cap.

He could identify the cap badge if he saw it.

Officer stood up in the half track.

Black peak cap and shoulder boards with straps going across his shoulder.

The driver and two or three in the back.

He had a trench coat on.

No other vehicle with his or no flags on car noticed.

Lt Barker did all the talking for the group as he spoke German.

They were moved to the side of the track while they were stopped in order to let traffic by.

Second Interview, July 45:

They were stopped for about 4 minutes with this Officer.

He was about 25-30 yards/Metres back from this Officer.

He had rope/braid on his shoulder.

He had a dark trench coat on.

There were German troops in a scattered wood to the left of the trail.

He was asked if he could have mistaken an open car (per McLean’s description) for a half track. He replied ‘It is possible that it might have been wagon with wheels, well camouflaged with bushes etc., and 25 to 30 yards away, it is possible that it could have been either’.

The case against Mohnke:

Mohnke3.jpg
Source: 'Hitlers last General'
Mohnke3.jpg (84.33 KiB) Viewed 708 times

(1) The location where these executions happened was in the 26th Regiments ‘zone of operation’. After their capture the POWs were brought to a Comp. and Btln H.Q.’s of Mohnke’s Regiment. There is also evidence that Mohnke was in this particular area on the night in question. George Isecke of the 12th Panzer Regiment during his interrogation stated the following in relation to the 26th Regiment:

I know nothing of an advance of the Regimental Headquarters; but I did see the Regimental Commander himself, and I presume he did come from outside Cheux because he passed our HQ on his way to his forward units’
(A:82, Interrogation of Isecke, July 45, Ontario, Canada)

The actual day that Isecke saw Mohnke is not stated, but he had been questioned just previously about events on June 8th. There is a map included in the file WO309/1172 which was shown to the surviving witnesses to verify different locations. In the portion of that map shown here, it is clear that the ‘trail’ the POWs were brought along was actually marked as a road at that time. You will note that this road leads directly from Rauray where Isecke saw Mohnke right up to Siebken’s HQ in Le Mesnil Patry and of course it is the road on which the POWs met the ‘angry Officer’. Today this ‘road’ has disappeared into fields.

maplocations.JPG
WO309/1172
maplocations.JPG (110.46 KiB) Viewed 708 times
(Blue dot = HQ of Reg 26th, Green Dot=HQ of Pz Reg, Purple dot= Siebken’s II Btn HQ, Red dot= field where executions happened, Black mark = approx. site of the meeting with the ‘Angry Officer’, Yellow arrows=route taken by POWs).


(2) In 1948 Dietrich Schnabel (II Btln, 26th Regiment) recalled seeing 40-50 Canadian prisoners at his Btln HQ in Le Mesnil Patry, these men were subsequently sent off to the Regimental HQ in the rear. He then recalled that Mohnke arrived later that night at the HQ to berate his Officers for sending these men back. He reported that Mohnke had said ‘Where will I put all those prisoners of war you sent back’. Schnabel further reported that this was between the night and early morning of the 8th/9th of June and that Mohnke was ‘raging’. (‘Hitler’s Last General’ pages 187/188).

This clearly shows that Mohnke knew about the prisoners being sent back before he arrived at the Btln HQ. How had he known this? As these POWs never reached anywhere near the Regimental HQ, the inference taken has to be that Mohnke was indeed the Officer who intercepted them and had angrily ordered their execution.


(3) Is there evidence here in the testimony of McLean, Ferris and Clark to rule Mohnke definitively in or out as a suspect? Personally the most interesting part of McLean’s testimony concerns his description of the ‘Shoulder Boards’ of the mystery Officer. If we can take the details of a cream/twisted/rough/curled braid with a gold 'pip' as accurate, that would indicate that this Officer was an ‘Obersturmbannführer’, which was Mohnke’s rank at that time.
rank2.png
rank2.png (35.47 KiB) Viewed 708 times

Other suspects:

Does anyone feel that this ‘Mysterious Officer’ could have been someone else? In the vicinity at the time were the Panzer Lehr Division, elements of this division were known to be here on this date per the testimony of Georg Isecke. Certainly our three witnesses were all recaptured by ‘Tank men’. Isecke, when asked about this, thought it unlikely that these Panzer men were from his Regiment as they had orders not to pick up POWs but to leave it to the infantry. Also known to have been there or thereabouts to the right of Le Mesnil Patry was Siegfried Müller’s Pioneer Btln who themselves were suspected of other war crimes at this time. Isecke maintained that this Btln were not brought up to the front line until just after this date, but can they be ruled out?

On the left were the notorious Recon Btln under Bremer, this Btln were subsequently accused of executing POWs, two men from this Btln were in the area at this time, one being suspected of having taken part in the actual shooting. Both men claim to have seen the ‘Angry Officer’ but also claim not to have recognised him. Their testimony however was full of contradictions leaving the investigators wondering what the truth of the matter actually was. They did also mention that they met Erich Olboeter (III Btln , 26th Reg) in the early morning of the 9th of June and asked him for directions back to their Btln. There is no evidence or allegation against Olboeter, it is just an indication that there could have been other ‘people of interest’ roaming this area on the date in question.
HQ8644.jpg
If anyone feels that there is pertinent evidence that could identify this ‘Angry Officer’ from the testimonies of the three men in relation to the clothes or vehicles details, please post. All insights welcome. I will finish this post at a later date with details of what happened after the men arrived in the field.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#25

Post by rossmcpharter » 04 Nov 2014, 19:46

Yet another top quality post. My money has always been on Mohnke, and I think the war crimes investigators was too, but with Mohnke believed to be either dead or in Soviet hands, they had to settle for Siebken, who they had.

In my opinion Mohnke's receding chin, hairline, and prominent lower jowls, all conspired to make him appear older than his real 33 years. Even in the more flattering Normandy decoration award photos, he appears older than Meyer and the others.

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#26

Post by seaburn » 04 Nov 2014, 22:04

Hi 'RMP' - Was there anything new in the evidence of the witnesses that you think has added to your belief that it was Mohnke ?

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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#27

Post by eindhoven » 05 Nov 2014, 05:09

Appearance is however a circumstantial thing.

Attempting to hang the coat on the right perpetrator I am afraid is folly. Seaburn is on the right track by attempting to isolate units and commands in the vicinity of the crime on the correct dates in question. Bear in mind based on his Google maps these prisoners are marching in the direction of Max Wünsche's HQ at Raurey. We already have a photograph of Wünsche in his Regenmantel overcoat complete with shoulderboards and correct rank. The direction of travel for this group of prisoners is of interest.

An example of trying to find the hanger for the overcoat. The Wool overcoat, leather overcoat favored by officers, and Regenmantel were standard issue or private purchase.

Stubaf Steineck (Arko I.Pz.Korps), Hubert Meyer in leather overcoat with shoulder boards, Kurt Meyer in blurred edge camouflage tunic & pants, Ostuf Meitzel, Reichenbach Hstuf
Stubaf Steineck (Arko I.Pz.Korps), Hubert Kurt Meyer in camouflage pattern 44, Ostuf Meitzel, Reichenbach Hstuf.jpg
Siebken in leather overcoat with shoulder boards, also of the right rank.
bernard Seibken.jpg
Bremer wore one as well as evidenced by the inspection of 12th SS Panzer-Division HJ in Beverloo, Belgium Jan-Feb 44 by Von Rundstedt.
SS-Sturmbannführer Gerhard Bremer.jpg
SS-Sturmbannführer Gerhard Bremer.jpg (142.41 KiB) Viewed 682 times
Mohnke wore his standard wool overcoat with shoulderboards. Bremer also on the far left. Again at Beverloo, Belgium Jan-Feb 44
32.jpg
Meyer far right in a black Regenmantel, rain coat, during the same time frame.
12th SS HJ Rundstedt Inspection 3 copy.jpg

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eindhoven
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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#28

Post by eindhoven » 05 Nov 2014, 05:14

I would argue that men look completely differently depending on combat fatigue. Seen here Kurt Meyer 'appears' much older than Mohnke who was wearing a cap per the survivor testimony so receding hairlines would not apply.
Olboeter -Meyer - Mohnke.jpg
More to follow after digitizing some maps.

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eindhoven
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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#29

Post by eindhoven » 05 Nov 2014, 06:16

I have decided to use Hubert Meyer's excellent history of 12th SS Panzerdivision HJ which he graciously supplied maps with. He was after all the Division Adjutant.

This map he included in Band II of the two volume set shows an official German Army map of the area Sonderausgabe VI. 1940, Blatt Caen 1:80.00 and is complete with Hubert Meyers tape on it. I believe it is important to factually view the ground operationally as the German unit did. Forensic study of where the executed PWs were is of course key. Quite frankly the testimony of these survivors is completely shoddy and unreliable. I am not surprised the war crimes branch did not pursue this.

Note the layout of the area on this map that the German's would be using is different than the accurate satellite imagery we have today.
Caen Karte 1 übersicht Raum um Caen Sonderausgabe V1, Blatt Caen.jpg
Caen Karte 1 übersicht Raum um Caen Sonderausgabe V1, Blatt Caen.jpg (245.36 KiB) Viewed 681 times

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eindhoven
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Re: 'Fontenay le Pesnel' 8.6.44/Canadian 'Malmedy'

#30

Post by eindhoven » 05 Nov 2014, 07:36

This map represents the units present and their movements as per Hubert Meyer from 6 to 10 June 1944.

Circled in Yellow for Auklärungs is Bremer's unit with Ostuf. Buchheim as adjutant. It shows his initial area of operation in Cristot with his movement by 10 June to Pavie. We can exclude him IMHO

Circled in blue with Green overlay just Southeast of Le Mesnil Patry we have III/.26 (Gep.) commanded at that time by Stubaf. Olboeter, Ustuf. Kugler as Adjutant . You can see his location as far Northeast of Cheux and le Haut du Bosq. By 10 June 1944 Olboeter had moved just Northwest of Cristot which Bremer had cleared. We can exclude Olboeter IMHO

Circled in Green In the area of Cheux we have Motorized elements of 1/.26 commanded by Stubaf. Siebken. Hubert Meyer shows no movement of this unit yet. That means Siebken was available and in the area making him suspect.

Circled in gray is the HQ element of 26. where Mohnke would have been situated. This command is closest to le Haut du Bosq and the road leading to Rauray. This makes Mohnke suspect.

Circled in Red for artillery is II/AR 12 commanded by Stubaf. Schöps, Ustuf. Engemann as adjutant. This unit is just south of le Haut du Bosq. The unit dug in 9 10.5cm Leichtes-Feld-Haubitze and would have been stationary.

Of note is that Rauray is not yet established as the Headquarters of Panzer Regiment 12 commanded by Max Wünsche per Hubert Meyer. I however have Chateau de Rauray as being between 9 and 26 June the regimental HQ for Panzer Regiment 12.
karte 2 Die erste Schlacht um Caen vom 6 bis 10 Juni 1944 Kopie.jpg

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