Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

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James Paul
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Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#1

Post by James Paul » 05 Dec 2016, 01:44

Hi,

On quite a few Youtube videos I've seen Holocaust deniers post this information which allegedly "debunks" the Holocaust:
Any good with numbers?

-(1940-1945) 5 years (x) 365 days = 1,825 days; (+) 1 day for a leap year (1944) = 1,826
- 1,826 days (x) 24 hours = 43,824 hours (in 5 years)
- 43,824 hours (x) 60 minutes in each hour = 2,629,440 minutes
- 6 million Jews (divided by) 2,629,440 minutes = 2.281 Jews every minute
- 60 seconds per minute (divided by) 2.281 Jews per minute = 1 Jew every 26.30 seconds

So, to believe their propaganda, you must believe that Germany, during those 5 years was killing a Jew every 26.30 seconds ... NONSTOP!

Now, considering the alleged gas chambers only came into operation in early 43 and ended late 44 the math is even more impressive.
Where do Holocaust deniers get such rubbish from?

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wm
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#2

Post by wm » 05 Dec 2016, 12:08

Those calculations lack space. It was a territory larger than Western Europe, with tens of thousands villages and towns where the Jews lived. When we factor space it is a single death per maybe ten places per day.

The same reasoning can be used doubting the German Army casualties, by saying that major battles were relatively rare but the casualties were in thousands per day every day - but the frontlines were very long so every day rare events multiplied by the total length of the frontlines plus all the battles added to a large total sum.

Similarly the Holocaust was the gas chambers plus everyday killings happening over an enormous territory.


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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#3

Post by mtobler » 05 Dec 2016, 22:33

I'm not quite sure what to make of the claims of Holocaust deniers, it does however make sense to me that the real events could have been somehow distorted because there was a lot of hatred towards the nazis before the holocaust became an issue. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

There is one youtube video that I highly recommend which is about 4 hours long and makes a case for the holocaust deniers, but it's important to keep in mind that it's a very sensitive issue and getting to the bottom of the truth might not be so straightforward.

Here is the link to the video which should be watched to the very end to understand the whole view of the holocaust deniers: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwbzzVDuYD4&t=1s[/youtube]

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#4

Post by wm » 06 Dec 2016, 21:19

Well, there are nothing mystical about holocaust deniers or other truthers, it's a bunch of straightforward psychological conditions stretching from ignorance to Anosognosia.
There are ignorance, mistakes and falsehoods in every minute of that video. And four hour of tediously slow, boring, disorganized narration - please, this 21st century people expect convenient and fast delivery of information.

For example at the beginning he dismisses Wiernik's book as a forgery from the seventies unaware that his book was published in large number by the Polish Underground in the occupied Warsaw, shortly after Wiernik's escape from Treblinka. And that his testimony is corroborated by other eyewitnesses who wrote books too, like Willenberg, Weinstein, Rajchman, Glazar.

But he is especially unaware of the fact that in Poland you don't have to read someone's book in three-volumes to know what happened. Because many older people saw that with their own eyes, especially those living in the East, where the Holocaust was done in place, clumsily, without maintaining proper secrecy. Some of them were in Auschwitz as prisoners, some even lived in close proximity to the death camps. Well, even some people in my family were/are witnesses to what happened to the thousands of Jews who lived in their towns/villages.
And what they saw is this: the Jews didn't escape to Israel as that slow speaking idiot claims, they were all murdered because they were Jews. And the Nazis were both the enablers and the murderers.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#5

Post by Sergey Romanov » 07 Dec 2016, 00:59

James Paul wrote:Hi,

On quite a few Youtube videos I've seen Holocaust deniers post this information which allegedly "debunks" the Holocaust:
Any good with numbers?

-(1940-1945) 5 years (x) 365 days = 1,825 days; (+) 1 day for a leap year (1944) = 1,826
- 1,826 days (x) 24 hours = 43,824 hours (in 5 years)
- 43,824 hours (x) 60 minutes in each hour = 2,629,440 minutes
- 6 million Jews (divided by) 2,629,440 minutes = 2.281 Jews every minute
- 60 seconds per minute (divided by) 2.281 Jews per minute = 1 Jew every 26.30 seconds

So, to believe their propaganda, you must believe that Germany, during those 5 years was killing a Jew every 26.30 seconds ... NONSTOP!

Now, considering the alleged gas chambers only came into operation in early 43 and ended late 44 the math is even more impressive.
Where do Holocaust deniers get such rubbish from?
I don't understand the sense of these calculations. I mean, even if you ignore their wrong gas chamber chronology and ignorance about shootings, what is saying that 1 Jew was killed every 27 seconds supposed to show? What is the argument, exactly? Is it supposed to be unbelievable or something? I mean, obviously, only the dumbest, low-IQ people would swallow this, but still...

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#6

Post by Sergey Romanov » 07 Dec 2016, 01:08

mtobler wrote:I'm not quite sure what to make of the claims of Holocaust deniers, it does however make sense to me that the real events could have been somehow distorted because there was a lot of hatred towards the nazis before the holocaust became an issue. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Only in the sense in that the events "on the margins" can indeed become distorted (hence you have various war rumors like Jewish soap, testimonies about "diesel" engines by mistaken witnesses, etc.), but the core - the "middle" - that millions of Jews were systematically murdered by the Nazis, many of them in the gas chambers, is undeniably true.

Of course, this phrase is usually interpreted otherwise - there being two "poles", the truth lying between them. The problem is that the Holocaust denial is basically a big lie, and taking the truth (even if somewhat tainted on the edges, like any big historical event is), mixing it with a lie and dividing by two won't give you more truth, only less.
There is one youtube video that I highly recommend which is about 4 hours long and makes a case for the holocaust deniers, but it's important to keep in mind that it's a very sensitive issue and getting to the bottom of the truth might not be so straightforward.

Here is the link to the video which should be watched to the very end to understand the whole view of the holocaust deniers: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwbzzVDuYD4&t=1s[/youtube]
This has been fully debunked at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... html#debuv

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wm
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#7

Post by wm » 07 Dec 2016, 03:51

Another missing piece is the tens of thousands of pages of testimonies written by the Jews themselves, not years after but during the occupation, which paints entirely consistent picture of what happened to them, especially the everyday deaths and killings that were partially responsible for that a Jew per 26 seconds number. It includes for example Sierakowiak's and Poznański's diaries, and of course the enormous Ringelblum Archives.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#8

Post by history1 » 09 Dec 2016, 09:15

wm wrote:[...] And the Nazis were both the enablers and the murderers.
The Nazis only? You mean the Nazis and their collaborateurs, which includes many Poles guarding ghettos, AK members killing Jews, Poles betraying their Jewish neighbours for blood money, etc..
It should be mentioned that Poland is the only country in Europe were Jews were murdered in pogroms by local inhibtants long before, during and even after (!!!) WWII.
Guess that´s some news for James Paul and also not keeped in mind by the deniers calculations.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#9

Post by wm » 09 Dec 2016, 15:02

Criminal activity doesn't count, and to be possible someone has to enable it, and this someone were the Nazis.
Criminals are always around us, and invariably prey on the weakest and most vulnerable.

There weren't any "pogroms" in interbellum Poland, there were some local conflicts not much different from other contemporary events in Poland.
Lots of people died in political, class and economic conflicts in Poland. Very rarely they were Jews among them, although many millions of them lived there (I'm rather sure no Jew was ever harmed in Antarctica).
Actually the Jews were a privileged class in Poland, by their wealth, standard of living, possibilities of employment and
possibilities of emigration to better places. Certainly no sane Polish Jew didn't even think about leaving the safety of Poland for the USSR, Germany, Romania, Hungary to name a few.

And guarding ghettos (like in "maintaining order"), it wasn't a crime, and nobody ever was punished for it.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#10

Post by James Paul » 09 Dec 2016, 20:36

history1 wrote: It should be mentioned that Poland is the only country in Europe were Jews were murdered in pogroms by local inhibtants long before, during and even after (!!!) WWII.
Not true.

Here is one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewi ... Casualties

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#11

Post by history1 » 10 Dec 2016, 13:06

James Paul wrote:
history1 wrote: It should be mentioned that Poland is the only country in Europe were Jews were murdered in pogroms by local inhibtants long before, during and even after (!!!) WWII.
Not true.
Here is one example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewi ... Casualties
Not true? Then please quote the specific text from your link!
It seems you didn´t read the entire sentence from my post?
Bring examples were Jews were murdered long before, during and even AFTER WWII by local inhabitants!

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#12

Post by wm » 10 Dec 2016, 16:42

in that period Jews were murdered:
- in Germany in persecutions organized by the legitimate German government,
- in Austria in persecutions supported by the Austrians themselves,
- in the Soviet Union a cultural genocide was successfully carried out against the Russian Jews, this resulted in total loss of their cultural identity, customs, and religion. The Jewish religious and political leaders were arrested and most eventually murdered, this includes the occupied in 1939 by the Soviets Polish lands,
- in Hungary they were subjected to severe anti-Jewish law modeled on Nazi Germany, then hundreds of thousands of them were murdered on the orders of the legitimate Hungarian government,
- tens of thousands of Jews were sent to their to deaths by the legitimate Bulgarian government,
- in 1938 Romania stripped all Romanian Jews from their citizenship, the legitimate Romanian government was directly responsible of the murder of 300,000 Romanian Jews.

And the legitimate Slovak government was responsible for the destruction of their Jews, the same the Czech government, the French government, and the Dutch authorities.

In Poland no government, and no political party (except a splinter group, the size of maybe a football team) advocated or supported anti-Jewish violence or persecutions before, during and after the war.
In fact in the interbellum Poland a Polish Jew was much more likely to die in robbery, or by choking on a chicken bone than as result of politically motivated violence.

As to the original question - Jews were murdered by local inhabitants long before, during and even after WWII in each and every European country where they lived in great numbers, and where crime happened, exactly like in Poland.
Last edited by wm on 11 Dec 2016, 02:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#13

Post by James Paul » 10 Dec 2016, 19:41

history1 wrote:
James Paul wrote:
history1 wrote: It should be mentioned that Poland is the only country in Europe were Jews were murdered in pogroms by local inhibtants long before, during and even after (!!!) WWII.
Not true.
Here is one example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewi ... Casualties
Not true? Then please quote the specific text from your link!
It seems you didn´t read the entire sentence from my post?
Bring examples were Jews were murdered long before, during and even AFTER WWII by local inhabitants!
If you had bothered to look at the Wikipedia article you would have seen that there are ample examples of Jews being killed in pogroms by the locals in the Russian Empire. This completely disproves your statement (a statement you have provided no evidence to support).

wm has elaborated on this a lot further.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#14

Post by David Thompson » 10 Dec 2016, 21:32

For more on pogroms in the Russian empire and afterwards, see:

pogroms carried out by White forces in Russian Civil War
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... it=pogroms
Newly-available e-texts: Antisemitic pogroms
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... it=pogroms
Alleged mass slaughter of Jews by the White Russians in 1919
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... it=pogroms

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the time it took to kill Jews

#15

Post by wm » 10 Dec 2016, 23:35

In 1934 the Jewish Autonomous Oblast was established in the Soviet Union with the goal in mind of "preserving" Yiddish cultural heritage. The preservation efforts were mainly focused on preserving the Yiddish language, the fundamental Jewish identities (religion, politics, culture) had been stripped away from those people already, but then:
The colony, numbering about 20,000 Jews in the 1930's, gradually achieved a cultural life of its own, with Yiddish theaters and writers' clubs. But the Jewish flowering was brutally cut short when Stalin's purges reached here from Moscow, 3,500 miles to the west. In 1936 and 1937, the entire political leadership and the membership of the writers' club disappeared into labor camps.

Recovering slightly after World War II, the colony received thousands of homeless Jews and reached its peak in 1948 of around 30,000, about one-quarter of the region's population.

But Stalin's anti-Jewish purges followed in 1948, when Jewish activities were put on a par with criminal activities. The Yiddish theater was turned into a Young Communist Club and the Yiddish publishing house, literary magazine and schools were closed. Jews were barred from local government, and a new group of writers were rounded up and shot.

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