I'll repeat what I said to you last night.Sergey wrote:Wording typical for fairy-tales. The author doesn't mention his source. So it is no more than allegation.tonyh wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a "fairy-tale". John Weal's book on the 109 Aces of the Russian Front does say that...Sergey wrote:Until it the whole story should be regarded as a fairy-tale.Topspeed wrote:On the first day and days following the first day of Barbarossa 20th June 1941. I'll check the pilots name soon.
"Major Wolfgang Schellman, GeschwaderKommodore of JG27, took to his parachute over enemy territory on the opening day of Barbarossa and was reportedly shot by the NKVD 48 hours later."
How quick you to turn an allegation into proven, established fact.tonyh wrote:Schellman was not alone in being killed by the Soviets after being shot own.
It is unsourced, basesless claim that could mislead readers on this forum. Have you any evidences?tonyh wrote:JG3's Willy Stange was also killed when he fell into the hands of Soviet troops.
I repeat, there are only allegations, theories, suppositions. Acoording to my source the pilots died during an air-battle.tonyh wrote:In contrast to Stange & Schellman's fate...
I would like to translate an expression 'in all probabbility' from English to English. It means: really I don't know about their fate but but I so hate NKVD that I don't see another probability than them were being shot by these murderers.tonyh wrote:In addition, Eric Mombeek writing on the fate of Schellmann states that...
"Although he tried to reach the German lines he was captured and, in all probability, shot two days later by the NKVD."
What is your point? Do you mean that even a fairy-tale repeated few times becomes a well established fact?tonyh wrote:Christer Bergstrom, who has written (and is writing) the definitive and exhaustive account on the Eastern Front air war, "Black Cross/Red Star" says in Vol 1...
"He (Schellman) was brought down by an air to air ramming on the the first day of the war with the USSR. It is assumed that he was executed by the NKVD."
Bergstrom also says, however, that
"Nothing is known for sure..."
Again Tony I see only suppositions and allegations. Suppose that indeed Schellman was captured and didn't say his real name. After interrogations he likely would be sent to a camp for POWs. What would be a reason for NKVD to kill him? I don't see it.tonyh wrote:but,
"...it is remarkable that, on June 28th, Pravda ran a story about the capture of a German fighter pilot - and 'holder of the Iron cross' - by the name of Franz Jord. According to the news story, the German had served in the Mediterranean area (as Schellmann did) prior to the invasion of the USSR. No German airman named Franz Jord was reported lost on the Eastern Front at this time, but Feldwebel Franz Jordan had served under Wolfgang Schellmann's command in Stab JG27 until he was killed over Greece in April 1941.
It's obvious that the NKVD would have wanted to get their hands on any Luftwaffe pilot, if at all possible and it certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility that Schellman was interogated and executed by them on the 28th June, after he had given a false name. The name of a dead subordinate who had been killed in a previous operation.
Tony
I have simply posted quotes from three seperate authors. If YOU have a problem with those authors, YOU can do the counter research into it and post the results. At this time, I see no reason to disbelieve the likes of Bergstrom who has proven himself to be a writer of an unbiased nature, concerning the war in Russia.
As for the NKVD killing Schellmann and other pilots, there are a mulitude of reasons why they would do it. Expidience for one. With the Germans advancing at such speed and everything falling apart, it's quicker to knock someone off than send him to POW camp.
Also, I am making NO conclusions. YOU are the one doing that. Schellmann could well have been killed by the Red Army, not the NKVD. He also could have been killed under interrogation by either party.
And as for "your source", I wouldn't put much faith in it. Apart from being rather vague, it claims that the aircraft used was a BF109E. This is wrong.
Finally, if this claim of pilot murder was made against the Gastapo...you wouldn't be so mouthy, would you.
Tony