Zegota and possible Polish Revisionism

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Zegota and possible Polish Revisionism

#1

Post by Ship of Fools » 19 May 2007, 16:04

The story of Irena Sendler has been getting a lot of attention recently.

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Holocaust hero faces belated celebrity

WARSAW, Poland - The pilgrims keep coming, seeking out the fragile 97-year-old woman in her tiny nursing home room filled with pictures and flowers.

The attention tires Irena Sendler sometimes. She never sought credit for smuggling 2,500 Jewish children out of the Warsaw Ghetto anyway. Not for risking execution to save other people's children, or holding out under torture by the Nazis, or enduring decades as a nonperson under the communist regime that followed.

She once dismissed her wartime deeds as merely "the justification of my existence on this Earth, and not a title to glory."

"I'm very tired — it's too much for me," Sendler said recently of the incessant visits, during a brief meeting with an Associated Press reporter. And giving a little laugh, she added a bit sadly: "I feel my age."

Sendler in recent years has gained a measure of celebrity amid broader interest in Holocaust heroes stoked by the film "Schindler's List." Poland's parliament honored her in a March 14 ceremony and the country is pushing her candidacy — mostly symbolic — for the Nobel Peace Prize.

It is late recognition for an extraordinary life.

Sendler, a social worker, began organizing financial and material help for Jews after the war began in 1939 with the Nazi invasion. Posing as a nurse and wearing a Star of David armband — in solidarity and to blend in — Sendler would enter the Warsaw Ghetto, the prison enclave the Nazis established as a prelude to deporting and murdering Poland's Jews in death camps.

A Polish doctor forged papers stating she was a nurse. The Nazis, who feared the typhoid fever spreading in the ghetto, were happy to let Polish medical workers handle the sick and the dead.

Sendler persuaded Jewish parents that their children had a better chance to live if she smuggled them out and placed them with Catholic families.

In hopes of reuniting them later with their birth parents, she wrote the children's names and new addresses, in code, on slips of paper and buried them in two jars in an assistant's yard. That hope never came true: Almost all the parents died in Hitler's camps.

What the jar did save was their true, Jewish names.

Elzbieta Ficowska, nee Koppel, was 5 months old when one of Sendler's associates gave her a narcotic to make her sleep and put her in a wooden box with air holes. Box and baby left the ghetto with bricks on a horse-drawn wagon in July 1942.

Ficowska's mother hid a silver spoon in the baby's clothes. It was engraved with her nickname, Elzunia, and her birth date: January 5, 1942. Elzbieta was taken in by Sendler's associate Stanislawa Bussoldowa, a widowed Catholic midwife.

To this day, Ficowska calls the late Bussoldowa "my Polish mother" to distinguish her from "my Jewish mother."

For a few months, Elzunia's mother was able to telephone and hear her daughter gurgle. Soon, both parents died in the ghetto.

The escape routes were many and ingenious.

Sometimes, as with Ficowska, Sendler and her team hid the children in boxes or sacks and took them out of the ghetto in a truck. The fearful driver got a German shepherd and made it bark to drown out the children's cries when they passed by Nazi checkpoints.

At other times, the children rode an empty, or almost empty, streetcar linking the ghetto with the outside world, driven by a cooperating driver. Sometimes Sendler and her helpers passed them through the secret basements of buildings on the edge of the walled-in ghetto to the city outside.

Sendler was arrested in a Gestapo night raid on her apartment on Oct. 20, 1943. The Nazis took her to the dreaded Pawiak prison, which few left alive. She was tortured and says she still has scars on her body — but she refused to betray her team.

"I kept silent. I preferred to die than to reveal our activity," she was quoted as saying in the one book about her, "Mother of the Children of the Holocaust: The Story of Irena Sendler" by Anna Mieszkowska.

The Polish resistance bribed a Gestapo officer. He put her name on a list of executed prisoners and let her go. She went into hiding under an assumed name but continued her activity.

Today, Sendler is always dressed in black — in mourning for her own son, Adam, who died of heart failure in 1999. She can no longer walk, and spends much of her time hunched in a chair, next to a window and a table covered with vases with flowers, memorabilia and medicine.

Yet she has retained her pluck and a sense of humor. During a recent visit from Poland's chief rabbi, Michael Schudrich, and the U.S. ambassador, Victor Ashe, Sendler joked she felt as if she already had won the Nobel Peace Prize due to all the recognition she has received of late.

"I'm the only person in the world who has two Nobels!" she joked, showing her visitors evidence of two honors that have moved her deeply — a small album filled with pictures of German schools named after her, and bound volumes of signatures of people supporting her Nobel candidacy.

After the war, Sendler raised a family with her second husband, Stefan Zgrzembski, set up orphanages and nursing homes and was an official in the education system. But communist authorities barred her from positions of influence. As a member of the Polish Socialist Party before the war, Sendler was of the wrong shade of red for Poland's postwar Moscow-backed communist rulers.

She blames questioning and harassment by the secret police for the premature birth of her son, Andrzej, who died after two weeks. Her daughter Janina and second son Adam encountered difficulties in pursuing education and in building careers.

She was recognized in 1965 by Yad Vashem, the Israeli Holocaust museum, as a so-called Righteous Among the Nations, but ignored at home.

Jewish history was a taboo in communist-run Poland, making Sendler an uncomfortable witness, says Michal Glowinski, 72, hidden as a boy by Sendler in a convent after his Jewish family escaped the ghetto in January 1943. They were reunited after the war.

"I remember the streets of the ghetto," Glowinski says. "I remember the bodies of people dead of starvation, lying in the streets and covered with paper of light-gray color. I never saw such paper again. I remember the fear."

Glowinski, a literary critic who published his story in the memoir "The Black Seasons," says "I owe my life to Mrs. Sendler."

"She is an absolutely heroic person, exceptional," he said, stressing the "energy and imagination" she needed to save 2,500 children when trying to save just one Jewish person could mean instant execution.
I am somewhat disbelieving of this story and wonder if might not be an expression of Polish chauvanism that is still unwilling to deal with its own anti-semitic past and a less than stellar record of helping the Jews during the Nazi period.

Not so long ago I was browsing in a Warsaw bookshop and saw a book that is a trilingual collection of documents in Polish, German and English. It is coffee book style (I am sorry I have forgotten the editor but it will be familiar to any Poles with a strong historical interest in the Holocaust).

One of the documents presented is the Report of Zegota on its activities from December 1942 to October 1943, an english version on page 355.

In Section 1 it talks about helping Jews who wish to obtain aryan identity documents and says several thousand have been assisted in this way.

In Section 9, titled Children, it says that efforts had been made to save children by adopting them into gentile families. This had only begun recently but 20-30 had been saved this way. Now by October 1943 all ghettos had been dissolved and Jews were either dead or in labor camps.

This is a gigantic difference between 20-30 children and the 2500 figure that is commonly bandied around today.

I certainly dont wish to attack 97 year old women and I suspect she may be being manipulated by Polish political forces and that she really did have involvement in Zegota and however many children were saved.

But until better evidence is produced I would be highly sceptical that this story is the result of anything other than a centrally directed effort to improve Poland's image.

Of course I post this topic not as a final word but also to see if any knowledgable Polish posters can correct my mistakes or explain why the historical sources dont agree with the publicity

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#2

Post by polskifone » 19 May 2007, 23:08

I am somewhat disbelieving of this story and wonder if might not be an expression of Polish chauvanism that is still unwilling to deal with its own anti-semitic past and a less than stellar record of helping the Jews during the Nazi period.
Please allow me to be the first to say that this is grossly unfair and shows a major lack of understanding of the situation of Poland under occupation. It is easy to criticise the Poles “less than stellar record” from the comfort of an armchair now. It is not so easy to be brave at the risk of having your entire family shot for helping Jews. I wonder how many of us would pass the moral test today.

During the period in question, Żegota issued some 60,000 false Aryan papers to Jews. It saved more than 70,000 lives. How many Jews survived the war in Poland? A couple of hundred thousand? Half a million? Historians are still arguing about that now. However, of those who survived outside of Nazi camps, pretty much all of them owed their lives at some point to some gentile risking their, and their family’s, lives to do so.

Inside the ghetto it took time for the full horror of what was going to happen to sink in. From a Jewish perspective - as difficult as it is today to believe - not all Jews wanted to get their children out of the ghetto. “Better we should all die as a community”. Others thought better and some children were removed and survived in Polish convents or were placed with Polish families. How many? We will probably never know. The religious orders were not keen to return their charges to the Jewish fold and very few records were ever kept. I commend the following from Yad Vashem, surely not a party in league with the Polish conspiracy…

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micr ... 202308.pdf

Certainly the Poles had no love for the Jews, and I would not wish to minimise pre- and post war anti-semitism…my central argument is not the question: why did so few Poles help the Jews? I would ask the opposite question: why did so many help? I’m not sure if, given the situation at the time, I would have.

…and before we go throwing stones at the Poles. It was General Sikorski who told the Poles in Poland they should do everything they could to help the Jews. He sent Jan Karski to the USA to try to convince anyone who would listen about what was happening… did anyone else listen? Did anyone else believe?


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#3

Post by David Thompson » 20 May 2007, 02:49

Readers interested in the question of anti-semitism in Poland during WWII may find these discussions helpful:

Polish-Jewish Relations during the Second World War
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69883
Collaborators in the East
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=87176
Contemporary Polish reports on the Jew-destruction
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=92555
Crimes by certain Jews against Poles at Jedwabne, 1940
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=74763
Polish Home Army
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52816
National Polish American –– Jewish American Council
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53014
Polish views of Jews during WW2
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47644
Polish historian Bogdan Musial on 'Judeo-Bolshevism'
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42172
Anti-Jewish order by Polish General Anders
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=41682
Poland faces up to the horror of its role in the Holocaust
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12345

The sticking point in these discussions is the lack of any objective data on how widespread anti-semitism was. About all that can be said is that anti-semitism existed in that country, as it did elsewhere. Generalizations which attribute the behavior of some Polish anti-semites to the attitudes of all or even most Poles require that the reader be credulous, prejudiced, or both.

For the conditions under which Polish rescuers had to work, see:

Documents on the Nazi occupation of Poland 1939-1944
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=54862

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#4

Post by Ship of Fools » 20 May 2007, 06:56

Please allow me to be the first to say that this is grossly unfair and shows a major lack of understanding of the situation of Poland under occupation. It is easy to criticise the Poles “less than stellar record” from the comfort of an armchair now. It is not so easy to be brave at the risk of having your entire family shot for helping Jews. I wonder how many of us would pass the moral test today.
That is a very fair point and my words were not well chosen. Germans clearly occupy 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in culpability. But Polish anti-semitism was widespread, not withstanding many educated Poles who were not anti-semitic. I am not interested in discussing anti-semitism per se but rather Zegota.

The issue that I wish to raise is is there a Polish revisionism occuring where the role of Zegota is being magnified out of proportion to its deeds.

The book that contained the October 1943 report is called Poles - Jews, Polen - Juden (and the Polish translation) 1939 -1945.

I have yet to see how the 1943 report that claims several thousand have been granted Aryan papers and 20-30 children had been adopted into catholic families can be reconciled with the claims today of 70 000 Aryan papers and 2500 children had been adopted. Especially when you consider that after 1943 there were no Jewish Ghettos or communities left to assist.

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#5

Post by Vikki » 20 May 2007, 07:58

Speaking as someone who was trained first as an historian, then as an anthropologist....Memory is fallible. So is "history." And media reports are often pure/highly/completely exaggerated fabrication.

"Ship of Fools," it's clear that you're using this case to make your point. And it doesn't seem that you or anyone else has paid any attention to this:
"I'm very tired — it's too much for me," Sendler said recently of the incessant visits, during a brief meeting with an Associated Press reporter. And giving a little laugh, she added a bit sadly: "I feel my age."
Ship of Fools wrote:I certainly dont wish to attack 97 year old women and I suspect she may be being manipulated by Polish political forces and that she really did have involvement in Zegota and however many children were saved.
Well, that's exactly what you're doing--attacking her story. So don't be so coy about it. But then, of course, the content of Madame Sendler's memoirs was never the point of your post, was it? Simply the platform to stage an argument from. And your argument is weaker for that--that you use a media event to start your point.

~Vikki

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#6

Post by Ship of Fools » 20 May 2007, 08:29

Speaking as someone who was trained first as an historian, then as an anthropologist
How utterly delightful for you, I am simply speaking as someone who works as a janitor.
Well, that's exactly what you're doing--attacking her story. So don't be so coy about it.
There is a major discrepancy between what is being widely promulgated across media and internet boards and a historical document, worth discussing here, no? After all if I am incorrect giving high credence to the October 1943 report surely the best way to find that out is to tap the knowledge of members here?
Simply the platform to stage an argument from. And your argument is weaker for that--that you use a media event to start your point.
Good Lord! Staging an argument, thems fighting words. Well, actually yes, staging an argument that parts of the Polish governing elite are becoming increasing chauvenistic and are rewriting their history to suit a catholic Polish nationalistic agenda.

Or do you detect some more cryptic message?

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#7

Post by henryk » 20 May 2007, 22:16

Israel and Polish Jews believe her story!
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... [quote]She was, however, rescued by members of the Council, who bribed the German guards and helped her hide until the end of the war. Sendler has since been honoured by many Holocaust organisations. In 1965 she was named on of the Righteous Among the Nations by the Jerusalem-based Holocaust memorial Yad Vashem.

And in 2003 she received the highest Polish decoration –––– the Order of the White Eagle.

Official endorsement

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, officially support Sendler’s nomination to the Nobel Peace Prize.

The Polish Jews Forum has set up an online petition to support her candidture,

The open letter urges the Nobel prize committee “To honor a living person for heroic deeds that are by any measure the very essence of that work which must be not only emulated, but honored, in order to ensure a peaceful future for humankind. Rescuing the most vulnerable of an oppressed minority from the horror of totalitarian mass murder is the quintessence of charity and humanity.”

“She is one of the last heroes from the generation of our parents and our grandparents, who when confronted by the unparalleled evil of twentieth century totalitarianism, revealed great bravery, simple conviction, and the power of human will and intention,” the petition adds
[/quote]

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#8

Post by polskifone » 20 May 2007, 22:28

Scepticism is something everyone - be they historians, anthropologists or janitors - should have. Perhaps if you could be a bit more exact with your reference to the Zegota report. What actually did it say - from whom and to whom. I am curious to see what it says.

Having said that:
…parts of the Polish governing elite are becoming increasing chauvinistic and are rewriting their history to suit a catholic Polish nationalistic agenda.
I think “rewriting” is a bit strong. The facts have always been well known to anyone who cared to look. Sendler was accorded the title of Righteous Among the Nations by the Yad Vashem organization in 1965. 2,500 children? Why not? Wladyslawa Choms, [Righteous Among the Nations -1963] the Zegota organizer for the Lvov ghetto, had 60 children under her personal supervision and she is not nearly as well known as Sendler.
It's not as if Sendler looked after the kids herself.

The historiography of Zegota goes back many years:

See: Wladyslaw Bartoszewski and Zofia Lewin, eds. (Righteous Among Nations: How Poles Helped the Jews, 1939-1945. London: Earlscourt Publications Limited, 1969) This is the work of the “London Poles”

Teresa Prekerowa. (Konspiracyjna Rada Pomocy Zydom w Warszawie, 1942-1945 Panstwowy Instytut Wydawniczy, Warsaw, 1982) This is the work of the “Warsaw Poles” - Communist.

Look up Zegota at Yad Vashem.org- an organisation not exactly sympathetic to the Polish cause - and it says:
Zegota provided thousands of Jewish families with financial aid in 1943-1944, but its main contribution was in providing, free of charge, "Aryan" documents to thousands of Jews under its patronage. Zegota also arranged hideouts for Jews, thus exposing its activists to the death penalty.
The question we might ask is why her and why now? But that’s politics for you. I would point you in the direction of Yossi Malman’s article at : http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761014.html

Politics is dirty… the fact that everyone wants to bathe in reflected glory is only to be expected - that does not take away from Sendler’s personal bravery or from tha facts that do not need to be rewritten - only restated!

PS:
This is also worth a read if your interested:
http://www.savingjews.org/docs/clergy_rescue.pdf

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#9

Post by David Thompson » 21 May 2007, 05:29

Ship of Fools -- You wrote:
Good Lord! Staging an argument, thems fighting words.
Keep your shirt on. We don't tolerate poster brawls here.

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#10

Post by Liluh » 24 May 2007, 00:32

Ship of fools, do some personal research on Mrs. Sendler`s story, especially as mentioned earlier - in Yad Vashen. You may believe what you want of course, and no one will care, but pumping us with your views of current polish goverment being 'chauvinistic' and trying to create some false legends to support their own agenda is a very long shot if not foolishness. Besides, what`s the need of recreating an already good history? Sure there a those black cards, which nobody denies, but current polish-jewish relations are good enough for a profitable historical research which is ongoing.

Now what I wanted to really say is related to the Zegota efficiency. I was recently researching some info about my grandfathers ww2 path and I came up on some interesting stuff. As there were more organizations, and more histories to still be told.

He was a part of underground organization called 'Korpus Bezpieczeństwa AK' (Security Corp of Home Army), he was fighting as guerilla in forests around Lublin, then joined Warsaw Uprising which is irrevelant for this topic. Back in 1939 when first basic organization of Zwiazek Walki Zbrojnej (Association of Armed struggle, later Home Army) was borned, one of its officers, capt. Iwanski, was approached by four former polish army officers of jewish heritage. They wanted the become a part of borning underground movement, and in december of 1939 they were granted, incorporated under ZWZ. Their organization counted at first, 39 members and had the name Zydowski Zwiazek Wojskowy (Yewish Armed Association). They were given 39 vis pistols, and report about the new organization went on gen. Sikorski desk. Following years they grew, shuttled dozens of former jewish soldiers through Romanian border in order to let the join the reforming army in the west. They had strongest numbers in Lublin, Lwow and Stanislawow area and that basically where my grandfathers KB AK kicks in. All through those years they were being trained and equipped and in 1943 they had around 500 members, (two full trained and experienced companies) and they had enough equipment to arm more men, as they expected volounteers during Ghetto uprising - and they did.

From June 1942 up to April 1943 (uprising), KB AK supplied ZZW with:

- 3 heavy machine guns
- 100 pistols
- 7 rifles
- 15 automatic rifles
- 750 granades

After the start of uprising additional arms were supplied:

- 11 automatic rifles
- 1 light machine gun
- 11 submachine guns
- 50 pistols
- 300 granades

(not including supplies pre jun1942, also have in mind KB AK counted only 1,200 own members at best, so it was a rather considerable ammount of supplies sharing on their part)

They gave germans hell, not post-war communistic acclaimed ŻOB which lost its positions after 16 hours (lost heroicly or not, irrevelant here).

ZOB fought under red communistic banner, ZZW under polish flag and Davids star.
(and very much was based on political preferences those days)

Additional supplies during ongoing warfare were supplied through a system of 6 tunnels digged by ZZW long before uprising (of which, one was compromised before the battle).
On 27th april, it seemed the battle is over, but mentioned earlier capt. Iwanski with his AK squad came through one of the tunnels and linked with ZZW on Muranowski square. They fought togheter, which seems to be confirmed by von Stroop reports from the site (which original version I couldn`t find). Iwanski urged David Apflebaum, one of ZZW leaders to evacuate but he denied as many of his groups were still scattered in ghetto and he didn`t want to leave them. Yet, he sent away 34 of his members togheter with additional wounded and any close 'civilian' through the same tunnel with AK squad as cover, and othe part covering the retreat for few hours (not without casualties mind you). On the final days of cleansing, 5th may, a group of ZZW members entered gettho and evacuated any civilians that were still hiding and they approached. Covering their retreat took lifes of almost whole squad.


It`s not about polish goverment or 'fascists' trying to create myths, even better polish-yewish, it`s about decrypting the twisted communistic truth feeded to everyone for 45 years and undusting facts, that although confirmed and well documented, remain dusted under the burdain of political ignorance.

Based on article of Moshe Arens "The Changing Face Of Memory: Who Defended The Warsaw Ghetto?" from "The Jerusalem Post" from 23 april 2003 and public discussions that followed, also in Shalom NewYork same year. Several ZZW members memoirs were printed after the war in book forms, and I can try to add them if the need be

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I am getting tired of this "poles helped the nazis"

#11

Post by timotheus » 24 May 2007, 05:48

once again children:

During WW2 penalty for hiding or helping a Jew for a Pole: execution on the spot. This includes the whole polish family if the Jew was caught hiding in a polish family house, say, in a village.

Would you risk your life and your own family - wife, husband, children - to help a desperate, fugitive Jew? Honestly, ask yourself that, no matter whether you are Jew, Christian, Moslem, Tongan, Hawaiian, whatever.


There are also claims aired now that many poles hid the Jews for financial gain. Which makes sense because, surely, a Jewish person running for his/her life would be carrying gold bullion on his/her person... (that was sarcasm kids).


Now, regarding polish anti semitism then - yes, some percentage of poles, was anti semitic. Since there were no polls taken on the subject by the German occupiers, the range of poles who were anti semites is 1% to 100%. Pick a number based on your own prejudice and political goals.


From http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761014.html
"Poland has become fixed in the collective Israeli memory as the country most responsible for the Holocaust. Sometimes Israelis believe it is more guilty than even Nazi Germany - because the Nazis set up the extermination camps on Polish soil."

I am speechless. Are Israelis truly this idiotic? Collectively dumb?

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#12

Post by Ship of Fools » 24 May 2007, 08:01

Ship of fools, do some personal research on Mrs. Sendler`s story, especially as mentioned earlier - in Yad Vashen. You may believe what you want of course, and no one will care,
As I said, I am not particularly interest in Mrs Sendler individually and I tend to steer clear of hagiographies whatever the area.

It is not a question of belief but a large discrepancy between the contemperory documents and the way history is being told in Poland today.

The Zegota report to the government in exile (I thin) of October 1943 spoke of 20-30 children adopted out and "several thousand" being granted aryan papers. Today Poles claim those numbers are 2500 children and 60 000 being granted papers.

All I am asking is what is evidentiary basis that these numbers have been inflated so and why did Zegota in late 1943 provide such woefully incorrect estimates of its activities.

Liluth, a not unsimilar theme can be found in the article on the underground press and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in the book "Why didn't the Press shout". The article examines very critically all the post war claims about military actions by the Polish underground army to add the ghetto with what was printed in the underground press at the time (which was very little). The author's conclusion is that something that we could call revisionism is occurring.

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#13

Post by ToKu » 24 May 2007, 09:42

So, as I understood, Poles claim more actions were taken to help the Ghetto Uprisers then it hppened in reality and one of reasons to belive that this statement is true is the fact that Polish underground press didn't mention most of actions, which Poles claim today to have happened.

If we accept the initial condition made by Ship of Fools, that ralatively large polish anti - semitism is a factor that should be taken under consideration by historians dealing with fate of Jews on Polish soil during II WW, then answer why underground press was silent about Polish armed help for Ghetto Uprisers is realtively clear.

Logical reason is: press was meant to influence public opinion. Public opinion was anti - semic in large part (condition accepted). If press was to achieve its goal, then "unpopular" (helping Jews) actions were very unlikely to become "top stories".

Note that I'm not judging if the initial condition (Poles were anti - semits in large part) is true or not. I just gave better (IMO), logical explanation (IMO), why underground press remained silent about those actions.

Today we would call those reasons PR managment.

IMO this explanation is logical and better then Polish revisionism.

All thoughts remain valid only under initial condition accepted.

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#14

Post by Liluh » 24 May 2007, 11:30

Ship of Fools wrote: The Zegota report to the government in exile (I thin) of October 1943 spoke of 20-30 children adopted out and "several thousand" being granted aryan papers. Today Poles claim those numbers are 2500 children and 60 000 being granted papers.

All I am asking is what is evidentiary basis that these numbers have been inflated so and why did Zegota in late 1943 provide such woefully incorrect estimates of its activities.
Well if you say "I think", then think better, then give us a link or reference where we can find this document, which you seem to use just from memory, not quoting what you see. Otherwise, I`d say the number of 60.000 doesn`t necessarly mean children, but also adults.
Liluth, a not unsimilar theme can be found in the article on the underground press and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in the book "Why didn't the Press shout". The article examines very critically all the post war claims about military actions by the Polish underground army to add the ghetto with what was printed in the underground press at the time (which was very little). The author's conclusion is that something that we could call revisionism is occurring.
It`s not 'Liluth" but 'Liluh'.

"..Warsaw is waiting tensely for an air attack by the Soviets or the British, in retaliation, which would raise the spirits of the Jews fighting in the ghetto. The impression is meanwhile gaining ground that people abroad do not know what is going on in the Warsaw ghetto. Who is responsible for this? Is it the man who occupies the position of Delegate or the ZWZ?** We recall that very minor facts, a hundred times less important than this, were known in London almost immediately and broadcast to every part of the world. On the other hand, after the previous Aktion to liquidate the Jews of Poland, in which more than a million and a half Jews were lost, this became known to the world only after the whole Aktion had been completed...."

Yad Vashem Archives, O-25/46.

* Extract from the Polish Socialist newspaper Robotnik ("The Worker"), May 1, 1943.

See? At least I cared to give at least *any* quotation. Now, unless you want to continue this discussion you should provide some quotes from the refereed book yourself, to make your point valid. "Why didn't the Press shout" by Robert Shapiro deals with worldwide press, american to large extent, not only polish.

Besides, if you mean something makes it to the press, then it`s more real than it was before, then there`s something wrong about your logic. Any cooperation or help to Ghetto uprising (after it was over) would not be a good fact to brag about left or right due to many political differences inside underground . Neither would be mentioning of certain activities prior to the events, wise. Maybe Zegota and Mrs. Sendler, togheter with ZZW should keep publishing articles about their activities during that time, so you could believe them. Fortunately they didn`t,

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polskifone
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#15

Post by polskifone » 24 May 2007, 15:27

Double post deleted. :)
Last edited by polskifone on 24 May 2007, 21:45, edited 2 times in total.

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