Scott Smith wrote:Charles Bunch wrote:Scott Smith wrote:Charles Bunch wrote:Scott Smith wrote:
Nobody is saying that the Holocaust didn't happen. That is a dishonest reductio ad absurdum.
Nonsense. You deny the Nazis intention to exterminate Europe's Jews. You deny the gas chambers which accounted for half the 6 million murdered. You even attempt to minimize the death toll.
No I don't. Perhaps you are confusing me with Hannover.
I admit to the similarities.
Now answer the following questions so we quickly dispense with your dishonesty.
Chuck, you are just making an elitist ass of yourself--perhaps something learned at Bowdoing.
1. Do you accept that Nazi Germany murder Jews in gas chambers at Treblinka?
Not proved as far as I'm concerned because the murder-weapon is not established with forensic science, nor the fantastic body-disposal rates with minimal fuel.
And why on earth would it be necessary to establish the details of the murder weapon?
Are they necessary in this case to determine the occurrence and nature of the crime, the identity of the criminals, their actions and their guilt?
No, they are not, so cut out the crap.
As to the "fantastic body-disposal rates with minimal fuel", they are "fantastic" only if you apply "Revisionist" mathematics, as we have seen on a thread of the old forum.
As to "forensic science", even what little we know about its application from the reports of the Polish Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland seems to leave you mute. This commission, as you may remember, discovered ashes, bone fragments and other partial remains all over an area of more than 20,000 square meters, buried to a depth of 7.5 meters. For some reason Smith has never dared to forward calculations that would demonstrate why, say, the 713,555 Jews from the General Government transported to Treblinka until 31.12.1942, according to Höfle's report to Heim of 11 January 1943 (hereinafter referred to as the Höfle memo), could not have been accomodated in the burial space that can be calculated on the basis of these cornerstone data.
There are also other traces. For example, in the north-eastern part, over a surface covering about 2 ha. (5 acres),
there are large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues.
As a result of an examination made by an expert it was found that ashes were the remains of burnt human bones. The examination of numerous human skulls found in the camp has shown that they bear no traces of external injuries. Within a radius of several hundred yards from the camp site an unpleasant smell of burnt ash and decay is noticeable, growing stronger as one approaches.
From the report by the Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes in Poland. Warsaw, 1946
Source:
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpoltreb1.htm
In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been located, the commission's team of 30 excavation workers reportedly found human remains, partially in the process of decay, and an unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5 meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones. (note 63)
Poland's Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes reported that large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues, were found in the five acre (two hectare) burial area during an examination of the site shortly after the end of the war. (note 64)
The investigations by the Central Commission as referred to in an article by "Revionists" Mark Weber and Andrew Allen (nice shot in the foot, gentlemen).
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... linka.9605
Scott Smith wrote:2. Belzec?
3. Sobibor?
Same.
Well, regarding Belzec we also have an archaeological investigation more recent than that of the Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland, the key data of which can be viewed online under the following links:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... enza_II.98
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... enza_VI.98
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... lusions.98
On the basis of the above data contained in the archaeological report, I have made the following calculations:
Grave No.; Length (m); Width (m); Area (m2); Depth (m); Volume (m3); Number of Bodies
1; 40.00; 11.00; 440.00; 5.00; 2,200.00; 17,600
2; 15.00; 5.00; 75.00; 2.00; 150.00; 1,200
3; 20.00; 15.00; 300.00; 5.00; 1,500.00; 12,000
4; 20.00; 8.00; 160.00; 5.00; 800.00;
6,400
5; 35.00; 15.00; 525.00; 5.00; 2,625.00; 21,000
6; 33.00; 14.00; 462.00; 5.00; 2,310.00; 18,480
7; 30.00; 14.00; 420.00; 5.00; 2,100.00; 16,800
8; 30.00; 14.00; 420.00; 5.00; 2,100.00; 16,800
9; 10.00; 10.00; 100.00; 2.00; 200.00;
1,600
10; 25.00; 20.00; 500.00; 5.00; 2,500.00; 20,000
11; 11.00; 9.00; 99.00; 2.00; 198.00;
1,584
12; 20.00; 28.00; 560.00; 4.00; 2,240.00; 17,920
13; 5.00; 5.00; 25.00; 5.00; 125.00;
1,000
14; 70.00; 30.00; 2,100.00; 3.00; 6,300.00 50,400
15; 12.00; 7.00; 84.00; 2.00; 168.00;
1,344
16; 20.00; 8.00; 160.00; 4.00; 640.00;
5,120
17; 16.00; 8.00; 128.00; 3.50; 448.00;
3,584
18; 15.00; 10.00; 150.00; 2.00; 300.00;
2,400
19; 14.00; 8.00; 112.00; 3.50; 392.00;
3,136
20 30.00; 10.00; 300.00; 5.00; 1,500.00; 12,000
21 7.00; 7.00; 49.00; 2.00; 98.00;
784
22 27.00; 10.00; 270.00; 3.50; 945.00;
7,560
23; 10.00; 7.00; 70.00; 4.20; 294.00; 2,352
24 ?; ?; 0,00; 4.80; ?;
?
25; 14.00; 8.00; 112.00; 3.00; 336.00;
2,688
26; 9.00; 9.00; 81.00; 4.20; 340.20;
2,722
27; 10.00; 4.00; 40.00; 2.00; 80.00;
640
28; 5.00; 5.00; 25.00; 5.00; 125.00;
1,000
29; 30.00; 10.00; 300.00; 2.00; 600.00;
4,800
30; 10.00; 4.00; 40.00; 4.00; 160.00;
1,280
31; 10.00; 5.00; 50.00; 4.00; 200.00;
1,600
32; 15.00; 5.00; 75.00; 4.00; 300.00;
2,400
33; 5.00; 5.00; 25.00; 3.00; 75.00;
600
TOTALS (without grave no. 24):
Area: 8,257.00 square meters
Volume: 32,349.20 cubic meters
Estimated number of corpses: 258,794
Where data as to the depth of the graves were not given, I assumed the lowest depth found in the other graves, i.e. ca. 2 meters. The data provided for grave no. 24, on the other hand, are too vague to allow for assumptions regarding its length and width:
Grave No. 24. A narrow trench near the N fence and next to the E corner of grave No. 14. Contains burnt human remains to a depth of 4.80 m.
which is why there are question marks in regard to these data and the volume of the grave in the above list.
In order to establish the number of dead bodies prior to burning, I multiplied the volume of the pits in cubic meters with an average that even "Revisionist" gurus consider appropriate, i.e. 8 bodies per cubic meter.
The resulting total of 258,794 bodies is 175,714 bodies below the figure of 434,508 deportees to Belzec indicated in the Höfle memo. There are several possible explanations for the delta:
1) The 1997/98 archaeological investigation failed to discover all the burial facilities of the camp and there are mass graves that have still not been found.
2) The capacity of the pits was stretched by the procedure of “top down” burning. There are several indications supporting this assumption. Grave no. 10, for instance, is described as follows:
Grave No. 10. One of the largest mass graves in the camp, lies 15 m. N of the monument/mausoleum and measures 25 m. x 20 m. At depth 4 m. a 80 cm thick layer of human fat was found below which lay unburnt human remains and pieces of unburnt large human bones. The drill core brought to the surface several lumps of foul smelling fatty tissue still in a state of decomposition, mixed with greasy lime.
Source of quote:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... enza_VI.98
The presence of human remains
underneath the layer of human fat actually indicates that burning in this grave was done in the way suggested, i.e. “top down”, thus not reaching the lower layers of corpses which remained unburned and covered by the fat flowing out of the corpses burnt above them.
The question now is, why and when was this method used? Was this the way in which the large-scale burning of bodies dug out from the mass graves, described before German courts by former members of the SS staff such as Heinrich Gley, was carried out?
Hardly so. Evidence points to the following possibilities:
i) It was an initial attempt at erasing the physical traces of the crimes, which was reckoned to be ineffective and thus replaced by the more efficient method of burning the bodies upon grids made of railroad tracks laid on concrete blocks, using brushwood drenched with fuel placed underneath the grid.
ii) The “top down” burning occurred before it was decided to erase the traces of all the corpses, and its purpose was to “downsize” the contents of the mass graves in order to make room for further bodies.
Alternative i) is suggested by Tregenza in his analysis of the report:
* Evidence of the subsequent failed attempt at cremating corpses in graves may be found in the small graves near the N fence, Nos. 27, 28 and 32, in which a layer of burnt human remains and pieces of carbonized wood. The bottom of each of these graves is lined with a layer of human fat.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... lusions.98
I have found no eyewitness depositions indicating such a “failed attempt” at Belzec in the few sources at my disposal, which of course doesn’t necessarily mean that there are no such depositions. Evidence to a trial-and-error approach at Treblinka, on the other hand, is provided by the testimonial of Ya'akov Wiernik at the Eichmann trial:
Q. The burning of the bodies — was it always in the manner in which you described it, or was it perhaps in crematoria, inside buildings?
A. Until the end of 1942, they did not burn those who had been gassed, but they would bury them in enormous pits. The bodies were placed inside. Only at the beginning of 1943 did they make various experiments of how to burn them, and they did not succeed. The a certain Scharführer arrived, an SS man, and he brought this model for the grids, and he always used to stand near the fire and shout: "Tadellos, tadellos!" (perfect, perfect!).
Q. And were they burned only in this way?
A. Yes. This is the way they burned them.
Source of quote:
http://www.ukar.org/eichma02.shtml
It seems plausible that similar unsuccessful experiments, followed by the successful adoption of the grids method, were carried out at Belzec.
As to alternative ii), we have the deposition of Dr. Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, who described his visit to Belzec on 18./19. August 1942 at a trial in Munich in 1961. His deposition, transcribed on pages 173 and 174 of Kogon/Langbein/Rückerl,
Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas, contains the following statement:
Nachdem in den Kammern Stille eingetreten war, wurden die an der Außenwand der Gebäudes angebrachten Türen geöffnet. Durch diese wurden die Leichen von jüdischen Häftlingen herausgeschafft und in große Gruben geworfen. In diesen Gruben wurden die Leichen verbrannt.
My translation:
After it had become silent in the chambers, the doors on the building’s outer walls were opened. Through these the corpses were taken out by Jewish inmates and thrown into huge pits. In these pits the corpses were burned.
If Pfannenstiel got the time of his visit to Belzec right, this means that the bodies were being burned in the pits into which they were thrown in August of 1942. While this is borne out by the above described physical evidence, which suggests a “top down” burning using wood and tar paper in the pits, it is apparently not related to the overall burning of the corpses described by Heinrich Gley, former member of the SS staff of Belzec, at the already mentioned trial in Munich. A translation of Gley’s deposition is provided in Prof. Browning’s expert opinion at the Irving-Lipstadt trial:
As I remember the gassing was stopped at the end of 1942, when there was snow already on the ground. Then the general exhumation and cremation of the corpses began; it might have lasted from November 1942 until March 1943. The cremation was carried out day and night without a break, and indeed at first at one and then later at two fire sites. It was possible to cremate some 2 corpses at one fire site within 24 hours. About 4 weeks after the beginning of the cremation operation the second fire site was constructed. On average, therefore, some 300,000 corpses were cremated at the first site over 5 months, at the second site some 240,000 over 4 months. Naturally this is a matter of estimates based on averages. To figure the total number of corpses at 500,000 could be correct.
While Gley’s estimate on the number of corpses has been recently revealed by the Höfle memo to be a bit too high, his description of the general exhumation and cremation of the corpses is interesting in that it dates the commencement of this procedure to November 1942. This suggests that the burning in the pits in August 1942, described by Pfannenstiel, was not related to the general exhumation and cremation of the corpses but to an attempt to “downsize” the contents of the pits by burning the bodies as far as possible, in order to make room for further bodies.
3) The difference is to be found “somewhere else”.
Alternative 3) immediately raises the question: Where?
Considering that
- there is no evidence whatsoever that people taken to Belzec were taken anywhere else from there;
- the nature and purpose of the camp, and the fate of people transported there, become clearly apparent from the documentary evidence and from the depositions of former members of the SS staff at trials before West German courts;
- there is only a handful of deportees known to have survived Belzec
this alternative must be considered the least probable of the three. I consider alternative 2) to be the most likely possibility, but I wouldn’t rule out alternative 1) either.
Anything about my calculations and considerations that you can demonstrate to be wrong, Mr. True Believer?
Regarding Sobibor we may hear of similar findings in the future. The following press article transcribed by a fellow poster on the old forum points in this direction:
Polish Researchers Find Mass Graves
By ANDRZEJ STYLINSKI, Associated Press Writer
WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish researchers said Friday that they have discovered mass graves at Sobibor, a death camp in eastern Poland that was razed by the Nazis after inmates staged an uprising.
Seven mass graves and the sites where several buildings stood were found, said Andrzej Kola, an archaeology professor supervising what he said was the first thorough study of the former camp.
The Nazis, who built the camp in occupied Poland in 1942, razed it in 1943 after an uprising in which inmates killed nine guards and tried to flee.
Three hundred Jews escaped from the camp, but dozens of them were killed in a surrounding mine field and most of the rest were hunted down over subsequent days.
A total of about 50 people who escaped from Sobibor survived World War II. Some 250,000 people, most of them Jews, are believed to have died in the camp.
The research team began drilling around the site over the summer to determine where buildings and graves might have been located, Kola said. The study is sponsored the government.
The drillings provided the initial evidence of mass graves and traces of a long barrack. After further excavation at the building site, researchers uncovered 1,700 bullets in one of its corners, leading them to believe that prisoners were executed there, Kola said.
Researchers also found various objects used by inmates or guards, including metal cups and spoons, watches and binoculars.
Kola said the barrack, located about 70 yards from the mass graves, might have served as a gas chamber, but that further study was necessary. More archaeological research is planned for next year after the ground thaws.
The test drillings and preliminary excavations have been concentrated at former camp No. 3 at Sobibor, which was a death camp. Two other sections were used to imprison slave laborers.
The camp, on Poland's eastern border with Belarus, was turned it into a Holocaust memorial in the 1960s by the Polish government. New memorial plaques, a parking lot and a small exhibition were added in the 1990s.
The government plans to expand the museum at Sobibor, which will include artifacts recovered during the archaeological research.
dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/...bor_1.html
From the thread
> Polish Researchers Find Mass Graves
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... D=91.topic
But then, who said that physical evidence is all that matters?
Historians and criminal justice authorities attribute just as much importance to eyewitness testimonials, the depositions of perpetrators on trial and documentary evidence. Hard though the true believers try to convince themselves that it necessarily takes physical evidence – which can be erased just like any other evidence – to prove the occurrence of a crime, I strongly doubt they have even been able to show a Code of Evidence that supports their beliefs. Just as they have been unable to show any procedural regulation that would make it necessary to exactly identify the murder weapon except to the extent that it provides essential information about the criminal’s identity that cannot be obtained otherwise.
Scott Smith wrote:4. Chelmno?
Even less evidence, almost apocryphal.
Hollow mumbling. The true believer is invited to have a look at the documentary and eyewitness evidence to the Chelmno killings that I presented on the thread
Chelmno
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... 5929fcb345
and to entertain our esteemed audience with one of his hilarious attempts to explain it away.
Scott Smith wrote:5. Maidanek?
NO. Here we have almost as much physical evidence as at Dachau but we have to keep the story straight, so we can't just say that the gaschambers (actually delousing closets) were never used for homicide. I would be amazed if anybody ever proved mass-gassings here at facilities available intact for inspection.
Blah, blah, blah. If our ignorant true believer read my posts on this forum with more attention, he would know that the physical evidence of the Majdanek death camp was shown to Western observers long before Dachau was discovered. Thus it was described by British journalist Alexander Werth:
[…]My first reaction to Maidanek was a feeling of surprise. I had imagined something horrible and sinister beyond words. It was nothing like that. It looked singularly harmless from outside. “Is that it?” was my first reaction when we stopped at what looked like a large workers’ settlement. Behind us was the many towered skyline of Lublin. There was much dust on the road, and the grass was a dull, greenish-gray color. The camp was separated from the road by a couple of barbed-wire fences, but these did not look particularly sinister, and might have been put up outside any military or semi-military establishment. The place was large; like a whole town of barracks painted a pleasant soft green. There were many people around - soldiers and civilians. A Polish sentry opened the barbed-wire gate to let our cars enter the central avenue, with the large green barracks on either side. And then we stopped outside a large barrack marked Bad und Desinfektion II. “This,” somebody said, “is where the large numbers of those arriving at the camp were brought in.”
The inside of this barrack was made of concrete, and water taps came out of the wall, and around the room there were benches where the clothes were put down and afterwards collected. So this was the place into which they were driven. Or perhaps they were politely invited to “Step this way, please?” Did any of them suspect, while washing themselves after a long journey, what would happen a few minutes later? Anyway, after the washing was over, they were asked into the next room; at this point even the most unsuspecting must have begun to wonder. For the “next room” was a series of large square concrete structures, each about one-quarter of the size of the bath house, and, unlike it, had no windows. The naked people (men one time, women another time, children the next) were driven or forced from the bath-house into these dark concrete boxes - about five yards square - and then, with 200 or 250 people packed into each box - and it was completely dark in there, except for a small skylight in the ceiling and the spyhole in the door - the process of gassing began. First some hot air was pumped in from the ceiling and then the pretty pale-blue crystals of Cyclon were showered down on the people, and in the hot wet air they rapidly evaporated. In anything from two to ten minutes everybody was dead ... There were six concrete boxes - gas chambers - side by side. “Nearly two thousand people could be disposed of here simultaneously,” one of the guides said.
But what thoughts passed through these people’s minds during the first few minutes while the crystals were falling; could anyone still believe that this humiliating process of being packed into a box and standing there naked, rubbing backs with other naked people, had anything to do with disinfection?
At first it was all very hard to take in, without an effort of the imagination. There were a number of very dull-looking concrete structures which, if their doors had been wider, might anywhere else have been mistaken for a row of nice little garages. But the doors - the doors! They were heavy steel doors, and each had a heavy steel bolt. And in the middle of the door was a spyhole, a circle, three inches in diameter composed of about a hundred small holes. Could the people in their death agony see the SS-man’s eye as he watched them? Anyway, the SS-man had nothing to fear: his eye was well-protected by the steel netting over the spyhole. And like the proud maker of reliable safes, the maker of the door had put his name round the spyhole: “Auert, Berlin”. Then the touch of blue on the floor caught my eye. It was very faint, but still legible. In blue chalk someone had scribbled the word “vergast” and had drawn crudely above it a skull and crossbones. I had never seen this word before, but it obviously meant “gassed” - and not merely “gassed” but, with that eloquent little prefix ver, “gassed out”. That this job finished, and now for the next lot. The blue chalk came into motion when there was nothing but a heap of naked corpses inside. But what cries, what curses, what prayers perhaps had been uttered inside that gas chamber only a few minutes before? Yet the concrete walls were thick, and Herr Auert had done a wonderful job, so probably no one could hear anything from outside. And even if they did, the people in the camp knew what it was all about.
It was here, outside Bad und Desinfektion II, in the side-lane leading into the central avenue, that the corpses were loaded into lorries, covered with tarpaulins, and carted to the crematorium at the other end of the camp, about half a mile away. Between the two there were dozens of barracks, painted the same soft green. Some had notice-boards outside, others had not. Thus, there was an Effekten Kammer and a Frauen-Bekleidungskammer; here the victims’ luggage and the women’s clothes were sorted out, before they were sent to the central Lublin warehouse, and then on to Germany.
At the other end of the camp, there were enormous mounds of white ashes; but as you looked closer, you found that they were not perfect ashes: for they had among them masses of small human bones: collar bones, finger bones, and bits of skull, and even a small femur, which can only have been that of a child. And, beyond these mounds there was a sloping plain, on which there grew acres an acres of cabbages. They were large luxuriant cabbages, covered with a layer of white dust. As I heard somebody explaining: “Layer of manure, then layer of ashes, that’s the way it was done ... These cabbages are all grown on human ashes ... The SS-men used to cart most of the ashes to their model farm, some distances away. A well-run farm; the SS-men liked to eat these overgrown cabbages, and the prisoners ate these cabbages, too, although they knew that they would almost certainly be turned into cabbages themselves before long...”
Next we came to the crematorium. It was a great big structure of six enormous furnaces and above them rose a large factory chimney. The wooden structure that used to cover the crematorium, as well as the adjoining wooden house, where Obersturmbannführer Mussfeld, the “Director of the Crematorium” used to live, had been burned down. Mussfeld had lived there among the stench of burned and burning bodies, and took a personal interest in the proceedings. But the furnaces stood there, large, enormous. There were still piles of coke on the one side; on the other side were the furnace doors where the corpses went in ... The place stank, not violently, but it stank of decomposition. I looked down. My shoes were white, with human dust, and the concrete floor around the ovens was strewn with parts of charred human skeletons. Here was a whole chest with its ribs, here a piece of skull, here a lower jaw with a molar on either side, and nothing but sockets in between. Where had the false teeth gone? To the side of the furnaces was a large high concrete slab, shaped like an operating table. Here a specialist - a medical man perhaps? - examined every corpse before it went into the oven, and extracted any gold fillings, which were then sent to Dr. Walter Funk at the Reichsbank ...
Somebody was explaining the details of the whole mechanism: the furnaces were made of fireproof brick, and the temperature had always to be maintained at 1,700º centigrade; and there was an engineer called Tellener who was an expert in charge of maintaining the right temperature. But the corroded condition of some of the doors showed that the temperature had been increased above normal to make the corpses burn more quickly. The normal capacity of the installation was 2,000 corpses a day, but sometimes there were more corpses than that to deal with, and there were some special days, like the great Jew-extermination day of November 3, 1943, when 20,000 people - men, women and children - were killed; it was impossible to gas them all that day; so most of them had been shot and buried in a wood some distance away. On other occasions many corpses were burned outside the crematorium funeral pyres soaked in petrol; these pyres would smolder for weeks and fill the air with a stench...
Standing in front of the great crematorium, with human remains scattered on the ground, one began to listen to all these details with a kind of dull indifference. The “industrial report” was becoming unreal in its enormity ...
Source of quote:
Alexander Werth,
Russia at War 1941-1945, 2000 Caroll & Graf Publishers New York, pages 878 and following.
Werth also speaks of the skepticism that his reports were initially met with:
[…]“Unbelievable” it was: when I sent the BBC a detailed report on Maidanek in August 1944, they refused to use it; they thought it was a Russian propaganda stunt, and it was not till the discovery in the west of Buchenwald, Dachau and Belsen that they were convinced that Maidanek and Auschwitz were also genuine ...
[…]
The press and radio in the West were still skeptical. Typical was the BBC’s refusal to use my story, as was also this comment of the New York Herald Tribune at the time:
“Maybe we should wait for further corroboration of the horror story that comes from Lublin. Even of top of all we have been taught of the maniacal Nazi ruthlessness, this example sounds inconceivable ...
The picture presented by American correspondents requires no comment except that, if authentic, the regime capable of such crimes deserves annihilation.”[…]
So instead of Majdanek being matched to the “story” of Dachau, as true believers would have it, the fact is that the reality of Majdanek was only accepted in the West after British and American troops had come upon places like Buchenwald, Dachau and Bergen-Belsen.
Scott Smith wrote:6. Mauthausen?
Even less convincing than Dachau.
Just how convincing do you think your empty “vade retro” protestation are, Mr. Smith?
The horrors of the Mauthausen concentration camp, including but not limited to its gas chamber, are described on the web site of the Mauthausen Memorial under
http://www.mauthausen-memorial.gv.at/en ... ichte.html
Skipping some nonsensical Smithsonian platitudes, I move to the part where
Scott Smith wrote:
Functionalists do not deny intentionality.
They Deny the Intentionalist thesis, Socrates.
and ask: What is the Intentionalist thesis about, wise guy?
I also skip the verbal manure that follows and go to where the true believer mentions my name:
Scott Smith wrote:I do deny diesel-gaschambers and diesel gas-vans.
Let's add this to the list. This denies the history of Chelmno.
I just verified at the library Roberto's quote from Kogon, Langbein, and Rückerl about Renault gasoline trucks at Chelmno. I don't think that diesel engines have ever been claimed there,
Wow, Mr. Smith looked up a source of historiography for a change, and found that it left no room for his diesel nonsense.
That’s what I call progress, old boy.
Just one thing: when I provide a quote, you don’t need to “verify” it. You can trust me to quote correctly. I’m not a “Revisionist”, after all.
Scott Smith wrote:I also find the body-disposal rates questionable, as claimed.
Another major theme of Holocaust denial.
I've debated that before.
Very unsuccessfully, as usual. Xanthro’s knowledge of animal corpse disposal by fire buried quite a few “Revisionist” lies in that discussion, if I well remember.
Scott Smith wrote:has been conspicuously absent in debates over technical issues.
The relevance of which Smith hasn’t yet been able to explain. Just what would the technical implausibility of a given killing or body disposal method (assuming you could demonstrate it) tell us, other than that the witnesses who described such method may have been mistaken about certain details?
Scott Smith wrote:Roberto admits that he doesn't know anything about technology but that doesn't stop him from arguing his case,
Quite successfully so, I would say. Which is not surprising given that Smith’s technical nonsense is transparent even to a layman and, even worse, he has never been able to explain just what relevance his “technical arguments” are supposed to have.
Scott Smith wrote:and my argument has benefitted from that by seeing the possible objections.
What shall we call the above? Wishful thinking, or smiling through broken teeth?
Scott Smith wrote:Nobody was killed with diesel exhaust
If so, then the killing agent was gasoline exhaust, and witnesses who described it as diesel were mistaken about the type of engine.
Big deal.
And then, Smith’s “technical arguments” keep stumbling over his inability to explain why it would have been impossible to make diesel exhaust sufficiently toxic by increasing the engine’s fuel supply and/or restricting it's air intake.
Poor show.
Scott Smith wrote:and nobody was made into soap.
While there is some evidence to isolated soap-making experiments at the Danzig Anatomical Institute that “Revisionist” howlers have never been able to refute, I will never understand why it should be relevant whether and to what extent such corpse abuse occurred, when the issue is the brutal mass murder of millions of people.
The hilarious self-contradictions in the next two paragraphs of Smith’s post I let the audience enjoy uncommented, and move right to the final statement:
Scott Smith wrote:Nice try. I really enjoy it when I am portrayed as a sort of Manichean heretic, a "dangerous amateur" as Roberto once said.
If I well remember, I once referred that saying (“Professionals are predictable. It’s the amateurs who are dangerous.”) to myself, but never to Smith.
And for good reason.
He’s just a joke, a useful idiot whose ramblings keep giving me opportunities to show the newcomers to this forum just what a compilation of lies and imbecility “Revisionism” is.
For which I will always be grateful to Mr. Smith.
