#12
Post
by seaburn » 16 Jun 2013, 22:47
The ‘evidence’ for Kharkov comes in two parts in document TS26/856. Both are accounts from captured German POW’s. I have included their assertions and also Kurt Meyer’s answers when questioned about them. My final source comes ironically from Meyer himself.
Firstly the evidence from Obstlt Muller Rienburg. (there are no details given at all about him other than his name).
“I was on a regimental course at Munster and some of the SS Sheiks were there too from the Leibstandarte and so on, a certain Standartenfuhrer Meyer who had the oak leaves … at the end everyone had to give a lecture of experiences on the front on some interesting subject….and Meyer for example told how at Kharkov for the second time he received orders to let himself be encircled somewhere, with the assurance that he would be extradited again. They set off………the two drivers were killed – otherwise there was no causalities at all…they captured the village, killed everyone, children, women, old men, everyone. Then after the third glass of wine he said something like this: “If it were not for the supreme command, we should have won the war long ago. That is our cancer” He dared to say this to officers who had the Knights cross who had come there”. (TS26/856 page 45).
(As a complete aside I enjoyed the PR spin put on the reason that Meyer was encircled, it was all pre-planned of course!)
This put me in mind of something I had read in ‘Soldaten”: “ Meyer’s radicalism had already shocked Wehrmacht officers at a training seminar in Fall 1943. One of the participants remembers him declaring, after a third glass of wine the “the soldier must become a heathen, a fanatic fighter who hates every Frenchman, Englishman and American (Or whoever nationality the enemy was) so that he wants to jump at the enemy’s throat and drink his blood. The soldier has to hate every (enemy), every one must be his mortal foe. Only so we can win the war’. (Sonke Neitzel, Harald Welzer Soldaten Page 299… their source WO208/4168). The author of this assertion is not named but I think it’s interesting that he mentions the phrase ‘after the third glass of wine’. Could it be Obstle Muller Rienzburg? The occasion and the date match, If its not him, there may have been an urban myth circulating about Meyer shooting his mouth off after ‘the third glass of wine’.
Meyers interrogation on this matter:
Q. Did you at any time lecture at a regiment course in Munster? A. No, after the course I went to Belgium where the division was formed up. I took command of a regiment. (TS26/856 page 85)
Q. Now do you know whether regiment courses were conducted at Munster? A. I do not know of any course in Munster, Munster in Germany?
Q. Yes, do you say that there were no courses conducted there or you do not know of any? A. I say that none took place there. In what period could that have been? There were no regimental courses held for my regiment in Munster, nor were there any divisional courses while I had anything to do with the division.
Q. I should imagine from the information we have that this would not be a course conducted for regiments as a whole but probably for the officers. The information we have is that you were one who was called to give lectures at the course. A. No.
Q. You did give lectures on your experience in the Russian campaign did you not? A. No.
Q. Do you mean to say seriously that with your reputation and experience that you came back from Russia and were not called upon at any time to give talks and lectures to other officers on your experience? A. The only talks I have given at all have been to the older children in certain schools when I was on sick leave in Germany. Apart from that, I have never addressed groups of offices on tactical or operational questions of any sort. Nor have I taken part in any courses. This applies to both Russia and to the West. I did attend one course at the armoured troop school in 1943, as I said yesterday, but I did not take any part in the giving of the lecture. I would add that I have not been in Munster since 1940. ( all TS26/856 pages 154/155)
The second piece of evidence included comes from Interrogation report of Jacob Hanreich: (This man served in the LSSAH from 1933 and a full record of his service was put on the Phil Nix forum many years ago and is still there if anyone needs to view it). He gives his interrogators plenty of information with regard to war crimes committed by the Leibstandarte, including Jochaim Peiper’s battalion being christened the ‘soldering lamp bln’ for burning villages, he also includes details of crimes against Jews by the Einsatzgruppen and other incidents when he served in Italy and as above in Poland.
But it is the following paragraph about Kharkov that is of interest to me: “The Recce btn of the LSAH, made an advance at the end of Feb, towards the east and reached the village of Jefremovka (?). There they were surrounded by Russian forces, POL and ammo run out (sic) and they were supplied by air until they were ordered to try and break through to the west. Before trying to do so, the entire civil population was shot and the village burnt to the ground. The Recce Btln at that time was lead by Obstr Kurt Meyer…..”(TS26/856 page 232)
Meyers interrogation in relation to this:
Q. When was it that you left Russia? A. About June or July 1942
Q. Now at that time what position did you hold and in what unit did you belong? A. I was a Major and in command of a Recce unit which I had formed in Metz.
Q. In the Leibstandarte ? A. Yes in the Leibstandarte
Q. Was your unit at a place called Jefremovka? A. May I ask in what part of the front that is?
R. I understand it is in the neighbourhood of Kharkov. A. We were in Kharkov to the north of that place, I have never seen the name Jefremovka. (TS26/856 page 84)
Further questions were put the following day
Q. Do you say in your own experience that German troops shooting Russian prisoners ? A. Not among my troops.
Q. Does this also apply to civilians ? A. Yes civilians have not been attacked
Q. Do you say then, that at no time within your knowledge or experience have any troops connected with your command executed civilians in Russia ? A. Yes I can say that with confidence. (TS26/856 page 118)
And again
Q. Did you at any time in your military history authorise or direct the punishment of a village by the shooting of the men and the burning of the buildings? A. No.
Q. And does that answer apply to the campaign in the East and as to your experience in Russia and elsewhere? A. Yes, of course I expect the blowing up of bridges which has sometimes been necessary.
Q. Did you at anytime tell anyone that you were responsible for the destruction of a village in that manner? A. No
Q. Are you prepared to take an oath to that effect? A. Yes (TS26/856 page 160)
I then reread Meyer’s own autobiography as his story was a familiar one, I had read about the Recce group being surrounded, running out of ammo and fuel, being supplied by air, being relieved, fighting back west, “ at midday a reconnaissance plane circled us and dropped a message attached to a smoke canister. We had been surrounded by the advancing Soviets. We reached Alexejewka 24 hours later and went over to an all round defence….The Russian superiority hardly bothered us, but the lack of fuel, our immobility and the impending lack of ammunition brought us close to desperation…..We heard the sound of engines, they were circling above us…supply containers fell from the sky but unfortunately only a few remained intact….At that point I abandoned all hope. The available fuel was apportioned among a few assault fund and armoured cars….The sound of fighting to our rear, that is, to the west of Alexejewka, transformed our mood into one of happy excitement. The sound could only mean Max Wünsche’s advance had been successful….bringing us ample fuel and ammunition. We were completely operational again…..(Grenadiers pages .168,170,171,172)
Now the most ominous paragraph……..”During the fighting back to the west we got to know a new phase of this inhuman war. It was impossible to distinguish Soviet soldiers from harmless civilians. For the first time soldiers were ambushed in towns and in the countryside without being able to identify enemy units. We became nervous. The locals did not dare to betray the concealed Red Army solders. The Soviet’s enthusiasm and the attitude of the population demanded special watchfulness on our part. My old comrade, Fritz Montag, who has been given command of the acting headquarters company, drove into a minefield and lost both legs above the knee. He was brought to me fully conscious in a motorcycle sidecar……The fighting had taken on a treacherous character.” (Grenadiers pages 172, 173).
And just in case we are left in any doubt that Meyer indeed fought in the area in question, he later states “ We began a new phase of our own attack. The avenue of advance was switched to the northwest; the first objective was the line of high ground between Bereka and JEFREMOWKA,. The terrain in front of the SS Panzer Korps was well known to us as a result of the fighting in February” (Grenadiers page 184)
My conclusion: While I believe there is some truth in Obstlt Muller Rienburg’s statement, I am sceptical that Meyer would have been so foolhardy to tell a room of Wehrmacht officers that he had killed women and children. He was too astute for that and it would have been frowned upon by his superiors. But I do think he may have shot his mouth off later after ‘the third glass of wine’. The accusation of Jacob Hanreich holds much more substance for me, he was a very early recruit to the Nazi cause and would have known Meyer well, he seemed very frank in his accusations and many of them are published and excepted as fact in other books. He was not with the group that was encircled or relieved them as far as I can see, but he was in Russia with the LAH at the time. From Mid May 1941 until March 1942 (TS26/856 page 230) and he would no doubt have got the news hot off the presses.
Finally, I feel that Meyer has implicated himself by discussing the issue of ‘inhuman war and civilians’ in the same paragraph in relation to this timeframe, he also confirms he was in the Jefremowka area although he denied it in his interrogation. He was the senior commander at the time with this group, if there was an attack on civilians it would no doubt have been done on his orders, there would be no shirking away from responsibility by saying he wasn’t aware of what his subordinates did. I feel that there is a definite basis for this accusation and there must be documents relating to this incident in the Russian archives, perhaps it is just one of thousands, some day I hope they will come to light and the whole truth about this matter is recorded properly.
(with special thanks to fellow member Steve248 who provided me with valuable info and tips and looked up info for me while doing his own research ,even though my amateur bumblings must have set his teeth on edge)
Last edited by
seaburn on 17 Jun 2013, 17:11, edited 1 time in total.