Gas vans

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Hans
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#31

Post by Hans » 08 Feb 2003, 12:48

By the way, it is paradox that these "revisionist" Propagandists seem to enjoy to dealing with "Gräulpropaganda" (real or self-made), because when doing so they have no time left to focus on the real crimes committed by the Germans!

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Scott Smith
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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#32

Post by Scott Smith » 08 Feb 2003, 13:26

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote: I suppose next we'll be hearing that the Nazis baked babies alive in them too.
Unfortunately for the "revisionist" counterpropagandists, Bruno Baum, surviver and leading communist activist, has already stated explicitely 40 or 50 years ago that the facility was not used to kill people. So no chance to exploit it for your agenda, Scott! Sorry...
:wink:
If a Commie says-so then it must be true.
:wink:

Besides, nobody knew much about microwave ovens until the early-70s, when they were mass-marketed as spinoff technology from the space program. "Radar Ranges," used by the astronauts to prepare space-food. So it is not surprising that no Survivors thought about it--unlike with the notion of gassing people with smelly diesel exhaust, which one encounters everytime one sees a truck.
:)


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Scott Smith
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#33

Post by Scott Smith » 08 Feb 2003, 13:33

Hans wrote:By the way, it is paradox that these "revisionist" Propagandists seem to enjoy to dealing with "Gräulpropaganda" (real or self-made), because when doing so they have no time left to focus on the real crimes committed by the Germans!
Well, in my case, I no longer have unlimited time to post and I haven't even read 99% of the board after having been online for hours tonight. I try to answer posts but don't have as much time for Spam and diversions like I did and just follow my own interests where they shilly-shally. Sorry.
:D

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Hans
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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#34

Post by Hans » 08 Feb 2003, 13:45

Scott Smith wrote: So it is not surprising that no Survivors thought about it--unlike with the notion of gassing people with smelly diesel exhaust, which one encounters everytime one sees a truck.
I must correct you again, Baum also stated that they did in fact fear DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE that the facility could be used to murder people. He quickly added, however, that it wasn't. So this makes another point for me, and two for the credibility and honesty of communist survivers!
:P :wink:

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Scott Smith
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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#35

Post by Scott Smith » 08 Feb 2003, 13:59

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote: So it is not surprising that no Survivors thought about it--unlike with the notion of gassing people with smelly diesel exhaust, which one encounters everytime one sees a truck.
I must correct you again, Baum also stated that they did in fact fear DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE that the facility could be used to murder people.
Well, of course they would fear anything, even bathing; these wild rumors did not come from wholecloth. But oft-repeated rumors are not fact. It might have been a Human Soap factory for all they knew, and there are plenty of Survivors who will say that they witnessed Human Soap manufacture at Auschwitz.
He quickly added, however, that it wasn't. So this makes another point for me, and two for the credibility and honesty of communist survivers!
As he should if he had any technical knowledge at all, some of which could have been acquired after the war. Oh, yeah, that's what that Siemens, AG short-wave delousing thingy was with the lightning-bolt warning on it.

Besides, not all Survivors are liars or mistaken. But guess which kinds of stories are heard the most...
8O
Last edited by Scott Smith on 08 Feb 2003, 20:12, edited 1 time in total.

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#36

Post by Dan » 08 Feb 2003, 14:08

I must correct you again, Baum also stated that they did in fact fear DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE that the facility could be used to murder people. He quickly added, however, that it wasn't. So this makes another point for me, and two for the credibility and honesty of communist survivers!
I guess I will have to re-assess my belief in the SS beating machine!

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Hans
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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#37

Post by Hans » 08 Feb 2003, 14:59

Scott Smith wrote: Well, of course they would fear anything, even bathing; these wild rumors did not come from wholecloth.
Indeed, these rumors did come from the fact that the Jews were actually sent into the gas-chambers with the belief to get a hot shower!

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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#38

Post by Scott Smith » 08 Feb 2003, 19:24

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote: Well, of course they would fear anything, even bathing; these wild rumors did not come from wholecloth.
Indeed, these rumors did come from the fact that the Jews were actually sent into the gas-chambers with the belief to get a hot shower!
And sometimes a hot-shower is exactly what they got, as even Spielberg noted.
:)

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Alien
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Re: Nazi Microwave Ovens...

#39

Post by Alien » 08 Feb 2003, 19:46

[quote="Scott Smith wrote:
Anyway, I find it curious that you suddenly find "Nazi Microwave Ovens" believable when referenced by Survivor testimonial. I suppose next we'll be hearing that the Nazis baked babies alive in them too. The Nazi Microwave Oven looks like the Mouth of Moloch...
:wink:[/quote]

I am sorry, unlike you I can change. I do know that the Nazi regime murdered women and children, including babies, unlike you. Now tell me what doesn short wave ovens have to do with the murders that happened at Mathausen? Why nothing of course.

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Head in the Oven...

#40

Post by Scott Smith » 08 Feb 2003, 21:32

Alien wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:Anyway, I find it curious that you suddenly find "Nazi Microwave Ovens" believable when referenced by Survivor testimonial. I suppose next we'll be hearing that the Nazis baked babies alive in them too. The Nazi Microwave Oven looks like the Mouth of Moloch... :wink:
I am sorry, unlike you I can change.
I am sorry, too, because I don't mean to pick on you.
I do know that the Nazi regime murdered women and children, including babies, unlike you.
Really? Have I ever said otherwise?
Now tell me what does short wave ovens have to do with the murders that happened at Mathausen? Why nothing of course.
Well, it is part of delousing/disinfestation technology which was in use during WWII and particularly at the concentration camps. I explained that some other methods were steam, hot-air, gas, and microwaves. This is important because most people see a steam-disinfection-chamber at Mauthausen, for example, and they think it is a crematoria-oven or a gaschamber of some kind. At one time the Holocaust literature tended to split the difference and call them simply "Gas-Ovens," after another popular method of suicide with carbon monoxide-rich town-gas mains and using your home oven.

It didn't seem to matter to the atrocity-propaganda itself that a crematoria oven is not necessarily sinister. The fact that the crematoria ovens are in the same building as the fumigation chambers was once a smoking-gun. So the shower in the basement near the crematoria ovens with a standard gastight Luftwaffe bombshelter door is ipso facto proof of a gaschamber?

Let me repeat that understanding the delousing ritual is VERY important for understanding where the gassing rumors originated.

Delousing was part of a forced, unpleasant, but shared, ritual for millions of wartime Europeans--whether of population groups in detention by those God-awful Germans or by refugees fleeing by rail or handcart. For the duration of the war, until the very end, the Germans were mostly able to keep epidemics under control. Ironically, if they had more Zyklon-B available to them, then fewer people might have died of disease.

Modern people have trouble understanding this because we live in an almost plague-free society with vaccines, antibiotics and pesticides. When one hears the saying "sleep tight and don't let the bedbugs bite," s/he doesn't know what you are talking about! Body-lice, the disease vector for typhus is unthinkable, even for soldiers. My grandmother, who lived in California in the 1920s, had to be deloused when some "foreign" kid infected the whole school with head lice. The delousing-process then consisted of shaving one's head nearly bald and being sprayed with kerosene from head to toe and scrubbing really good. The bedding all had to be either bleached or burned. Imagine the rumors if enemy police and soldiers were conducting such an operation today!

There is an interesting book called Rats, Lice, and History, by Hans Zinsser. Black Dog & Leventhal Pub: April 1996 (ca. 1934). ISBN: 1884822479.

It is available from Amazon to support this very site ONLY by clicking my icon below.
:)

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Re: Head in the Oven...

#41

Post by Alien » 08 Feb 2003, 22:29

Scott Smith wrote I am sorry, too, because I don't mean to pick on you.

Funny, I don't feel that way, but good try any way.

Really? Have I ever said otherwise?
Not directly, but you certainly have intimated as much.

Well, it is part of delousing/disinfestation technology which was in use during WWII and particularly at the concentration camps. I explained that some other methods were steam, hot-air, gas, and microwaves. This is important because most people see a steam-disinfection-chamber at Mauthausen, for example, and they think it is a crematoria-oven or a gaschamber of some kind. At one time the Holocaust literature tended to split the difference and call them simply "Gas-Ovens," after another popular method of suicide with carbon monoxide-rich town-gas mains and using your home oven.

Enough testimony from both the Nazis and those incarcerated there prove in fact that Gassings were but one way the Nazi regime murdered people at Mauthausen. You simply cannot exculpate your beloved Nazis for that.

It didn't seem to matter to the atrocity-propaganda itself that a crematoria oven is not necessarily sinister. The fact that the crematoria ovens are in the same building as the fumigation chambers was once a smoking-gun. So the shower in the basement near the crematoria ovens with a standard gastight Luftwaffe bombshelter door is ipso facto proof of a gaschamber?
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah. Ignoring testimony isn't going to change what the Nazis did.

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Re: Head in the Clouds...

#42

Post by Charles Bunch » 08 Feb 2003, 22:36

Scott Smith wrote:
Alien wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:Anyway, I find it curious that you suddenly find "Nazi Microwave Ovens" believable when referenced by Survivor testimonial. I suppose next we'll be hearing that the Nazis baked babies alive in them too. The Nazi Microwave Oven looks like the Mouth of Moloch... :wink:
I am sorry, unlike you I can change.
I am sorry, too, because I don't mean to pick on you.
I do know that the Nazi regime murdered women and children, including babies, unlike you.
Really? Have I ever said otherwise?
Now tell me what does short wave ovens have to do with the murders that happened at Mathausen? Why nothing of course.
Well, it is part of delousing/disinfestation technology which was in use during WWII and particularly at the concentration camps. I explained that some other methods were steam, hot-air, gas, and microwaves. This is important because most people see a steam-disinfection-chamber at Mauthausen, for example, and they think it is a crematoria-oven or a gaschamber of some kind. At one time the Holocaust literature tended to split the difference and call them simply "Gas-Ovens," after another popular method of suicide with carbon monoxide-rich town-gas mains and using your home oven.

It didn't seem to matter to the atrocity-propaganda itself that a crematoria oven is not necessarily sinister.
The Holocaust denier calls evidence for genocide "atrocity-propaganda" and thinks he's making an argument!

No one but mindless deniers have ever claimed that crematoria ovens are necessarily sinister. It is the evidence that they were used to cremate bodies of exterminated Jews, in an effort to destroy the evidence, that makes them sinister. And none of this is obviated by Mr. Smith's continual posting of delousing information, anymore than the Einsatzgruppen murders would be by posting information on the prevalence of gun clubs or gun ownership in Eastern Europe.
The fact that the crematoria ovens are in the same building as the fumigation chambers was once a smoking-gun.


There are no fumigation chambers in the same buildings as crematoria ovens.
So the shower in the basement near the crematoria ovens with a standard gastight Luftwaffe bombshelter door is ipso facto proof of a gaschamber?
But the evidence doesn't show it to be a shower, nor is there any evidence it was a bombshelter. The evidence shows it was a gas chamber. Would a person who claims he is merely a "skeptic" reject evidence based conclusions in favor of fantasies for which there is no evidence, and about which one would expect greater skepticsim? Or is such a person obviously trying to deny something?
Let me repeat that understanding the delousing ritual is VERY important for understanding where the gassing rumors originated.
Bullshit. Stealing Crowell's nonsense I see!
Delousing was part of a forced, unpleasant, but shared, ritual for millions of wartime Europeans--whether of population groups in detention by those God-awful Germans or by refugees fleeing by rail or handcart. For the duration of the war, until the very end, the Germans were mostly able to keep epidemics under control.


Then why did they need 46 cremation muffles capable of incinerating thousands of bodies at day at Birkenau?
Ironically, if they had more Zyklon-B available to them, then fewer people might have died of disease.
Ironically, since the Nazi intent was to murder them using Zyklon B and
much of the delousing at Auschwitz was to protect the camp staff and to delouse the belongings of Jews which was to be sent back to Germany, more Zyklon B would have saved no Jews.

But as with most of what Smith posts, it ignores the evidence in favor of a wild theory which doesn't fit the evidence.

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Re: Head in the Oven...

#43

Post by Scott Smith » 09 Feb 2003, 13:52

Well Alien, I can see that you have as little to add as does Chuckoo. No Smiles and Heils for you.
:P
Last edited by Scott Smith on 09 Feb 2003, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.

Caldric
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#44

Post by Caldric » 09 Feb 2003, 14:14

I was under the impression that the Gas vans were first used in the euthanasia program.

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Re: Head in the Oven...

#45

Post by Charles Bunch » 09 Feb 2003, 16:53

Scott Smith wrote:Well Alien, I can see that you have as little to add as does Chuckoo. No Smiles and Heils for you.
Well, he could make specious, unsupported conclusions as you did.

Is that what you call "adding" something?

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