MODLIN '39 - massacre - warcrimes - unfair warfare

[Orlov]

Dear Forumer's
I wold like explain questions regarding siege of Modlin in IX '39. I find very small:

Re Modlin:
Lt Alfred Lengenfeld, 14/Fallsch Jg Regt 8 (3 Para Div), was captured "by Armee Blanche 4 Sep 44 [at] Hasselt" and brought to the UK for interrogation, 21 Sept 1944. Lengenfeld had been with Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler from Nov 1937 and with them in the Polish campaign. "This offr PW was ordered by his coy comd, Hptstuf Kurt MEYER, 14/LSSAH, at MODLIN, in Oct 39, to shoot 50 Polish Jews as a reprisal...

Szymon Datner. "Zbrodnie Wehrmachtu na jeńcach wojennych [...]":
400 POWs + 100 civilians were murdered in Zakroczym on 28.09.1939 (most probably by SS "Deutschland"). Murdered soldiers were from the crew of Fort I of Fortress Modlin - this was in revenge for fierce resistance.

Who knows more details or sources (docs, photos):
I heard about shooting in back German parliamentarians by Polish infantry in Zakroczym, but also about burning Polish POWs or shooting Polish officer by Wehrmacht/ or SS-VT. Where is the truth?

bestreg
Orlov

[Panzermahn]

What is "unfair warfare"?

[David Thompson]

Panzermahn -- The author of this 7 1/2 year old post is asking for specific information about an historical event. It is not an invitation to ask irrelevant and frivolous questions.

The research sections of the forum are meant for persons who are fairly well-informed on the topics being discussed, and our discussions are not directed at the lowest common denominator of readership. Rural customs of discourse, such as feigned ignorance, pettifogging, playing at peek-a-boo, or "stonewalling" denials of facts well-known to most informed persons, are strongly disfavored here.

The object of the research sections of the forum is to exchange information, not to engage in dim wrangling as a form of diversion. Our readers are intelligent people, who have already taken the time to inform themselves on the topic under discussion and don't have a lot of time to waste playing games. Shrill and highly polemical posts are also strongly disfavored.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962

[Panzermahn]

Panzermahn -- The author of this 7 1/2 year old post is asking for specific information about an historical event. It is not an invitation to ask irrelevant and frivolous questions.

The research sections of the forum are meant for persons who are fairly well-informed on the topics being discussed, and our discussions are not directed at the lowest common denominator of readership. Rural customs of discourse, such as feigned ignorance, pettifogging, playing at peek-a-boo, or "stonewalling" denials of facts well-known to most informed persons, are strongly disfavored here.

The object of the research sections of the forum is to exchange information, not to engage in dim wrangling as a form of diversion. Our readers are intelligent people, who have already taken the time to inform themselves on the topic under discussion and don't have a lot of time to waste playing games. Shrill and highly polemical posts are also strongly disfavored.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962

Hi David

I wasn't aware that this is a 7.5 years old post. To be honest, this is the first time I heard the term "unfair warfare" and I am not too sure what is the relevancy to issues of massacre or war crimes

Panzermahn

[David Thompson]

A commentary post by antfreire, which added nothing of value to the discussion, was removed by this moderator - DT.

Panzermahn -- You wrote: (1)

I wasn't aware that this is a 7.5 years old post.

My mistake, Panzermahn, for which I apologize. You can tell by looking at the date it was posted, if you don't mistake that date -- as I did -- with the date the poster joined the forum.

(2)

To be honest, this is the first time I heard the term "unfair warfare" and I am not too sure what is the relevancy to issues of massacre or war crimes

It isn't relevant, nor is it central to the poster's request for information, hence my warning.

[ljadw]

Dear Forumer's
I wold like explain questions regarding siege of Modlin in IX '39. I find very small:

Re Modlin:
Lt Alfred Lengenfeld, 14/Fallsch Jg Regt 8 (3 Para Div), was captured "by Armee Blanche 4 Sep 44 [at] Hasselt" and brought to the UK for interrogation, 21 Sept 1944. Lengenfeld had been with Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler from Nov 1937 and with them in the Polish campaign. "This offr PW was ordered by his coy comd, Hptstuf Kurt MEYER, 14/LSSAH, at MODLIN, in Oct 39, to shoot 50 Polish Jews as a reprisal...

Szymon Datner. "Zbrodnie Wehrmachtu na jeńcach wojennych [...]":
400 POWs + 100 civilians were murdered in Zakroczym on 28.09.1939 (most probably by SS "Deutschland"). Murdered soldiers were from the crew of Fort I of Fortress Modlin - this was in revenge for fierce resistance.

Who knows more details or sources (docs, photos):
I heard about shooting in back German parliamentarians by Polish infantry in Zakroczym, but also about burning Polish POWs or shooting Polish officer by Wehrmacht/ or SS-VT. Where is the truth?

bestreg
Orlov

one correction :"armée blanche" is a bad and meaningless translation;it means the local resistance,who was wearing white overalls.
one question :how do we know that Lengenfeld was ordered by Meyer to murder 50 Jewsas reprisal ? For what ?
I don't see the interest of Lengenfeld to tell this to his interrogators .

[David Thompson]

An off-topic post from murx was deleted by the moderator pursuant to the previous thread warnings - DT.

murx -- You seem to be having a lot of problems with the rules recently. They're posted for all to see at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962. I suggest you read them before you post again. It you continue to violate them, you will find yourself on a 2 1/2 inch leash.

[Orlov]

Dear Friends

I ask about siege of Modlin in IX '39. Is this really:
- Hptstuf Kurt MEYER, 14/LSSAH, at MODLIN, in Oct 39, ordered shoot 50 Polish Jews as a reprisal...?
or/and
- 400 POWs + 100 civilians were murdered in Zakroczym on 28.09.1939 (most probably by SS "Deutschland" ???).
- were soldiers (the crew of Fort I of Fortress Modlin) shooting in revenge for fierce resistance or for shooting in back German parliamentarians by Polish infantry?
- German buried POW's or there was use flamethower in German attack?

Where is the truth?

BESTREG
ORLOV

[Orlov]

Once again abaot MODLIN '39,

Who can explain difficulties regarding siege of Modlin in 1939?

bestreg
Orlov

[Njorl]

Have you read Mieczysław Bielski's Grupa Operacyjna "Piotrków" 1939, Bellona, Warszawa 1991?

Regards
MJU